[NL5] [SH] Another QQ squeeze pot

    • mistralx
      mistralx
      Silver
      Joined: 13.08.2014 Posts: 1,345
      $0.02/$0.05 Zoom No Limit Holdem
      PokerStars
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

      Stacks:
      UTG ($66.5BB) 67bb
      UTG+1 ($100BB) 100bb
      CO ($71BB) 71bb
      BTN ($147.5BB) 148bb
      SB Hero ($130BB) 130bb
      BB ($107.5BB) 108bb

      Pre-Flop: (1.5BB, 6 players) Hero is SB :Qc: :Qd:
      1 fold, UTG+1 raises to 3BB, CO calls 3BB, 1 fold, Hero raises to 13BB, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls 10BB, CO calls 10BB

      Flop: :Jd: :Jh: :9h: ($40BB, 3 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets 10BB, Hero calls 10BB, UTG+1 folds

      Turn: :3c: ($60BB, 2)
      Hero checks, CO bets 10BB, Hero calls 10BB

      River: :4d: ($80BB, 2)
      Hero checks, CO goes all-in 38BB, Hero calls 38BB

      Is a calldown vs rather weak player (stack size, 1 table) good way in this spot?
  • 26 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,239
      What weaker hands could villain play like this? Donking with underpairs would be quite standard for recreational player but somehow I don't see them barreling and going broke OTR. You did squeeze pre and called flop and turn so he has to realize he doesn't have much fold equity with his less than half pot bet OTR.

      I don't think calling is super bad but I have a strong hunch that villain has Jx so often we should just overfold.
    • DaToepFa
      DaToepFa
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      Joined: 02.11.2006 Posts: 4,258
      Why not bet the flop? You are giving away the action completely and that makes it harder than it has to be imo. There are still some suited connectors drawing and many PP that call a bet on the flop. And I don't want to give the others a free turn to hit an A or a K. If you bet half pot, the pot is 80bb on the turn and villain has 40bb behind. Now I just check/call since I still think we are ahead often enough for 3:1 odds.

      In terms of range it really depends on stats/reads. "Rather weak player" doesn't tell me much. Does he call too much preflop? That could mean that some more Jx are in his range. Or postflop? That means that a flop bet becomes more profitable for us. If you have any reads, describe them as best you can since that might alter the Situation completely.
    • la55i
      la55i
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      I misread the action OTF. I think I would also prefer a small cbet there.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,661
      I like this, well played!
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,661
      You could also just jam the turn by this is fine
    • negtv
      negtv
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      Joined: 24.01.2012 Posts: 9
      What is your reasoning for checking otf over betting for value?
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Basically the range we have + they both have and EV on future streets really
      Both of them got a lot more Jx in their ranges than you do
      And although true you get more value and protection on this particular street by betting it's debatable when you plan the hand out to turn+river
      Especially 3way oop vs MP+CO
      Something We'll look at in week 4 of the coaching

      It's not like betting is a huge mistake or anything though
    • TakingAShot
      TakingAShot
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      Joined: 29.05.2017 Posts: 285
      This is what many of you seem to not understand: See all this garbage in the thread? See all of this analysis? It's 5NL. There's 5 bucks on the line. There is nothing else in this world that requires you to go through so much to potentially make or have stolen from you, $5. Just poker. It's simply not worth the effort and poker is by no means enjoyable when you're not making money so there really is no way one could advise anyone to start playing the game today. It's boring, it has absolutely no future, they'll almost assuredly just lose money in the short and long run, and regardless of how much study, analysis, video watching, note taking, software using, etc they put in, we're really just looking at glorified bingo. The game just has absolutely no place in today's world. Not nearing 2018.

      Any group of overly intelligent people who objectively took a look at poker would only need to watch a few hands before they realized how absolutely pointless the game is strategically and that it is largely a game of volume. Whoever's willing to sit there and rot away at the screen the longest, will win some money. Then he'll lose it at some point. In the end, the pursuit was neither enjoyable or lucrative. Sure, I guess every blue moon you'll find a guy who got lucky in a tournament early in his career and just went from there but people win the lottery, too. Nobody's quitting their jobs and studying 100 hours a week to potentially win the lottery. In actuality, that's what this dream of becoming a "poker pro" is. You might as well become a lottery pro.
    • TakingAShot
      TakingAShot
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      Joined: 29.05.2017 Posts: 285
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      Basically the range we have + they both have and EV on future streets really
      Both of them got a lot more Jx in their ranges than you do
      And although true you get more value and protection on this particular street by betting it's debatable when you plan the hand out to turn+river
      Especially 3way oop vs MP+CO
      Something We'll look at in week 4 of the coaching

      It's not like betting is a huge mistake or anything though
      This is what I'm talking about. You want me to think about all of this over $3-6? Why? Literally ANYTHING else I put that much energy into would yield more profit. The game is economically unviable. It simply can't compete in today's global marketplace and that's why it's been relegated to the darkest recesses of the internet.

      Let's be honest, too: All of that analysis and "strategy" is wonderful but ultimately has very, very little to do with which way the money is going. Further, it's so boring and tedious to even look at that if you don't get a headache when you do, there's clearly something wrong with you. It's just a bunch of gibberish.

      Guys come, sit at tables, play 90/60/30 and win. Others play 7/3/1 and win. Others come in and get Aces the first hand, double up and then leave. Others sit and play great poker for months on end and just bleed money. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to any of this because there's no rhyme or reason to it. It's all random and controllable to such a small extent that it's not even worth the time and effort.
    • Noname81
      Noname81
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      Joined: 31.12.2013 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by TakingAShot
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      Basically the range we have + they both have and EV on future streets really
      Both of them got a lot more Jx in their ranges than you do
      And although true you get more value and protection on this particular street by betting it's debatable when you plan the hand out to turn+river
      Especially 3way oop vs MP+CO
      Something We'll look at in week 4 of the coaching

      It's not like betting is a huge mistake or anything though
      This is what I'm talking about. You want me to think about all of this over $3-6? Why? Literally ANYTHING else I put that much energy into would yield more profit. The game is economically unviable. It simply can't compete in today's global marketplace and that's why it's been relegated to the darkest recesses of the internet.

      Let's be honest, too: All of that analysis and "strategy" is wonderful but ultimately has very, very little to do with which way the money is going. Further, it's so boring and tedious to even look at that if you don't get a headache when you do, there's clearly something wrong with you. It's just a bunch of gibberish.

      Guys come, sit at tables, play 90/60/30 and win. Others play 7/3/1 and win. Others come in and get Aces the first hand, double up and then leave. Others sit and play great poker for months on end and just bleed money. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to any of this because there's no rhyme or reason to it. It's all random and controllable to such a small extent that it's not even worth the time and effort.
      Lost your BankRoll?
    • DaToepFa
      DaToepFa
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      Joined: 02.11.2006 Posts: 4,258
      Originally posted by TakingAShot
      It's just a bunch of gibberish.
      FYI :f_drink:
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,239
      Dear TakingAShot,

      I'm sorry you feel that way. But there are many players who make their living out of poker. And for many of us this is very interesting and competitive hobby that can potentially turn out quite lucrative on the long run. If you go look our bankroll challengers and the guys who have previously completed their challenge you can see that someone is making money.

      I understand that playing for small money might not be that interesting but you really can't think like that if you want to get better. Micros are not for money, they are for studying to get to higher limits. If you don't care about the EVs and see no point in doing something that generates for example 0.5bb/100 higher EV, of course you will lose on the long run. Plugging a couple of small leaks will make huge difference on the long run.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,661
      Is it just me or is poker simply fun and even a 10 cent Sit N Go gives you infinitely more money that for example playing online games or watching shows?

      And a couple weeks back I remember being all-in in on the turn a $900 pot in my "day job" normal games
      Then in the same week facing a tough river bet and there not being much difference in the thrill...
      Even though it was NL5 and I was calling $1.20, think guys that come to my coachings can attest to that.


      You will actually find loads of regs at micros with 10-12 winning months per year that actually make a living there (and dont move up because they cash out for expenses), and I used to be one of them
    • pdfbq
      pdfbq
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      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 163
      I do not and do in a way agree with TakingAShot.

      Playing chess would also be a waste of time so I do not agree. I play 2NL for fun and not for the money. I see it as chess. Try to crack the game. That is something I find interesting.

      What I agree with is that I think it's much easier to make a decent living doing decent work than playing poker. Only some will get there.. Same as in music. Many poor musicians. The money you win is not eh...money because you created something or you delivered a service. It's money someone else lost. And there is a limit to that.
    • Mompacha
      Mompacha
      Silver
      Joined: 18.08.2017 Posts: 78
      I think if you fold here, you are going to be exploited even by weak fishes. OTR there is a lot of miss draws, so standard call.
      Even if he have a :Jx: , he is a fish... And he will jam with his entire crap range.

      Good call imo :f_thumbsup:
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