[NL20-NL50] TP/TK on blind battle

    • caltabiano
      caltabiano
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,992
      Known players:  
      SB:
      $90,52
      Hero:
      $50,00

      0,25/0,5 No-Limit Hold'em (3 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:spade: , A:spade:
      BU folds, SB raises to $2,00, Hero raises to $6,00, SB calls $4,00.

      Flop: ($12,00) J:diamond: , 2:diamond: , 9:spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $3,00, Hero raises to $10,00, SB raises to $84,52 (All-In), Hero calls $34,00 (All-In).

      Turn: ($140,52) Q:heart:
      River: ($140,52) 4:spade: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $140,52


      Am I bound to go broke here?
  • 15 replies
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      For me obviously not.

      It's 12 in pot + 3 sb bet + 10 your bet + 7 his raise in the pot = 32
      +34 his shove = 66
      and you call for 34 more. that's half the potsize.
      If the player is idiot style I'd go broke here because he'd often hold KJ/QJ. Vs decent player I'd again fold ... your outs on backdoor flush are kind of small.
      Can't see anyone do this with nothing. I think you are often beat by overpair.
    • caltabiano
      caltabiano
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      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,992
      I think he might go broke with a draw in this spot
    • generals007
      generals007
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      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Ya it's a hard decision. If you think he could be doing this as well, I'd call. You'd have to know if he would raise allin here with flushdraw.

      If you don't know anything about the player I for myself follow the simplest of all poker rules: if it's a very close one, fold.

      variance--
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      3 bet pot blind vs blind and you have TPTK for 100bb i think you just have to go broke here unless you have an amazing read, otherwise why 3 bet the hand and hit just about the best flop you can and still fold.
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      I don't think you can just go broke on a pair of Jacks unconditionally. I don't think going broke here would be a big mistake, but I think it's definitely worth a thought.
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      He might go broke here with a draw sometimes, but I doubt that he is ever going broke after mindonkbetting the flop into your preflop 3bet, then shoving over the top of your raise.

      I will always expect to see a better hand then. I could be wrong, but on balance, I think this is -Ev.
    • HannesNL
      HannesNL
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2008 Posts: 4,590
      You already have some money in the pot, so I would call the shove, since you only have to win 2 out of 5 times or something to make it +EV
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      True, but I think you're behind more than that.
    • bah22
      bah22
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 28.01.2008 Posts: 4,207
      This 3bet shove looks a lot like a flush draw or maybe it is a monster draw. Did u have any reads about him? Cause this small donkbet it is really strange i would be suspicious. If i saw him playing sneaky and makes this strange bets with good cards(weak player do this very often) i will not committed my whole stack. But again 3handed TPTK its a huge hand and if i put him on a draw i would call.
    • generals007
      generals007
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      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Originally posted by bah22
      This 3bet shove looks a lot like a flush draw or maybe it is a monster draw. Did u have any reads about him? Cause this small donkbet it is really strange i would be suspicious. If i saw him playing sneaky and makes this strange bets with good cards(weak player do this very often) i will not committed my whole stack. But again 3handed TPTK its a huge hand and if i put him on a draw i would call.
      +1
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 42.206% 34.66% 07.54% 13040 2838.00 { AsJs }
      Hand 1: 57.794% 50.25% 07.54% 18904 2838.00 { JJ+, 99, AdKd, AdQd, AJs, AdTd, Ad9d, KdQd, KJs, AJo, KJo }

      Without any info on the opponent i would say that is a suitable range, i have lncluded some marginal hands like ATd, A9d, KJo but also included hands like AKd AA, KK even though they probably don't play this way to make it balanced. With this much equity and that much invested you can't fold.
    • generals007
      generals007
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      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Lol, I don't think your range is fine ... A9 or KJ would probably not play vs pf 3bet if he's a decent player.
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      like i said with no information on the opponent i gave him a wide range and even included a slowplayed AKd,AA,KK,QQ. If you want to give him the tightest of tight range

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 45.309% 14.00% 31.31% 1247 2790.00 { AsJs }
      Hand 1: 54.691% 23.38% 31.31% 2083 2790.00 { JJ, AdQd, AJs, KdQd, AJo

      we have even better equity, i think we only need like 34% equity anyway.
    • generals007
      generals007
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      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Ok :) if you think so. I think we could agree on that it's a pretty close one and neither play can be too wrong.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
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      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      with tptk in 3-bet pot your goal is getting all-in on the flop against player who can re-raise:
      - draw
      - top pair for value
      - bluff
      - turn his middle pp into bluff.

      I would get stacked on taht board, since villain can´t really represent much