PokerStars 0,50$ Fullring Turbo, ATo against 3Bet

    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      Hi everyone,

      here I have ATo and decide to raise to 2.5BB. Villain 3Bet-pushes with almost 10BB and I have to decide whether to call or fold. Due to the preset pushing-range of ICMIZER of 8.4% (77+, AT+) this is a fold. But in this spot I have put villain to a wider range (44+, A7s+, ATo+, KQs), due to his stats and short stack, so that a call would be +EV. In fact I think that the range I put villain on is more on the wary side and he will push even wider. So, do you think this is a good call? And would you have played the hand the same way?

      PokerStars - 50/100 NL - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 9.97 BB (VPIP: 39.13, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
      SB: 28.59 BB (VPIP: 10.81, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 111)
      BB: 22.8 BB (VPIP: 22.02, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 170)
      Hero (UTG): 20.05 BB
      MP: 41.14 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 45)
      CO: 12.45 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: T:club:

      Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 9.97 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, Hero calls 7.47 BB

      Flop: (21.44 BB, 2 players) J:club: 3:club: 4:diamond:

      Turn: (21.44 BB, 2 players) T:heart:

      River: (21.44 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
  • 13 replies
    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 225
      I think i would call here, your pot odd are around 34% and he is probably shoving wider with 9bb. Giving him a 3bet shove of 15% (which i think could be wider than this) your equity is 43%, there are pp that shoves here, few weaker Ax and KQ and right now you're far from bubble.

      Cumps ;)
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 35,300
      You could raise smaller pre-flop like 2-2,2bb, but in the end, it makes not too much different and I would call as well against an aggressive short stack with ATo without antes in play.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      Alright, good to be supported in the decision I made :f_pleased: Thanks for your replies :f_thumbsup:
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      If we give Villain a range like (based on stats):

      A2s+, A5o+, 33+, KJo+, QJs+, KTs+

      We have 51 % equity against his range with A T (Equilab).

      So even then your A T is a fold because of the risk premium. Besides, we have a very low sample of only 23 hands which makes it hard to put him on a range. You raised UTG and he re-jams. As UTG-raiser Villain should put you on a tight range.

      Sorry for spoiling the party but I would fold this hand.
    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      Correct me if I am wrong but If I take your range / equity this should be a call. Cause if I fold I would have 14.06% equity left but if I call, I would have 23.10% (EQWin) x 51% (ProbabilityWin) + 8.56% (EQLose) x 49% (ProbabilityLose) = 15,98%.
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      Did you calculate this by hand? My ICM-izer said "fold" as well. Did you ICMize it with the new range?
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      Nope! ATs is +EV, ATo isn´t!
    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      I calculated the Equity with the Nash ICM calculator from holdemresources, took your Equilab Probabilities and did the rest by hand. But I have just pasted the hand into ICMizer again and it also says that ATo is an easy call with your range -> http://icmpoker.com/screenshot/dZpXns/
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      Originally posted by Primrose6789
      Besides, we have a very low sample of only 23 hands which makes it hard to put him on a range. ........
    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      Originally posted by Primrose6789
      Besides, we have a very low sample of only 23 hands which makes it hard to put him on a range. ........
      You are absolutely right. In this spot it is pretty difficult to put him on a range. But if I take your range

      Originally posted by Primrose6789
      If we give Villain a range like (based on stats):

      A2s+, A5o+, 33+, KJo+, QJs+, KTs+

      We have 51 % equity against his range with A T (Equilab).
      then ATo is a call. Even if we take my tighter range

      Originally posted by Mooharius
      But in this spot I have put villain to a wider range (44+, A7s+, ATo+, KQs)
      it still is a call due to ICMizer -> http://icmpoker.com/screenshot/fkuPGM/
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      And what did he have?

      The problem is, we take his open-raising range, 3-bet stats = 0.00 ---> we don´t know. Is he 3-betting with the range we gave him?

      Urm, sorry, I appologize for the mess I made here :sifflote: :sorry: but I think it´s an interesting and close spot.
    • Mooharius
      Mooharius
      Silver
      Joined: 10.01.2007 Posts: 314
      No problem, I like discussing over close spots. And I hope I will learn from these discussions.

      He showed 55.
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 1,773
      Me too. I have to appologize for messing two things up: his open raising range and his 3-bet range. The range we took is actually his raising range, 3-bet we have 0.00. So he didn´t 3-bet before. If we take the raising range, yes, we have to call but if we take the standard-3-bet range, we must fold. This spot strongly depends on Villain and HOW loose he is? We only have 23 hands so far.

      Without reads, I fold.