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QQJTds

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Poker Stars, $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $371.88 (185.9 bb)
      Hero (BB): $203.22 (101.6 bb)
      CO: $160 (80 bb)
      BTN: $239.35 (119.7 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with :Ts: :Jc: :Qc: :Qs:
      CO posts BB OOP, CO raises to $7, BTN folds, SB calls $6, Hero raises to $28, CO calls $21, SB calls $21

      Flop: ($84) :Kc: :7c: :8c: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $27.31, CO raises to $54.62, SB raises to $273.92, Hero folds, CO calls $77.38 and is all-in

      Turn: ($375.31) :9s: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($375.31) :Qd: (2 players, 1 is all-in)


      CO had posted. Recreational. 64/50, 11 hands.
      SB is a loose aggressive regfish from what I can tell. High 3b. Postflop I haven't seen him bluffing yet. 57/45, 3b 18.4 190 hands. Ag 2.8

      Very strange spot to be in bet/folding second nuts. Do you think there is a better line? My reasoning for folding was that SB can't really perceive himself as having any feq against CO so it's hard for him to have bluffs in this spot.

      Do you think we have a more profitable line postflop?

      thanks
  • 4 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 11,158
      I wouldn't 3bet pre. Had is pretty but there are two overcards to your pair. Meaning all your flush draws are more often dominated if the money goes in (you block Jc and Ts).

      As played, SB had Ac in his hand for sure (at least he should unless he feels gambler with a set). CO still has 40bb behind so there might be folding equity if he knows that he can't have nutflush. But if CO doesn't have nutflush, why is he raising there in the first place?

      The chance of facing a nutflush there is so high that I would fold. Of course it sucks when they show you KK and Tc9c. :D
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      I wouldn't 3bet pre. Had is pretty but there are two overcards to your pair. Meaning all your flush draws are more often dominated if the money goes in (you block Jc and Ts).

      As played, SB had Ac in his hand for sure (at least he should unless he feels gambler with a set). CO still has 40bb behind so there might be folding equity if he knows that he can't have nutflush. But if CO doesn't have nutflush, why is he raising there in the first place?

      The chance of facing a nutflush there is so high that I would fold. Of course it sucks when they show you KK and Tc9c. :D
      I think the fold is ok, too. SB had KK with :Ac: and I actually don't mind his play. SB had 2pair, with no flushblockers... :D

      But I am surprised that you don't think we can 3b pre. Hand is top 4th percentile, and we face a shortstack poster opening here (almost certainly weak player) and SB flatting where we have position on him. Sure we will have some tough postflop spots like here but isn't it a bit results oriented to think we can't 3b such a strong playable hand?

      I assume you 3b this bvb?
    • BluffinBilbo
      BluffinBilbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2009 Posts: 871
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      I wouldn't 3bet pre. Had is pretty but there are two overcards to your pair.
      I don't agree. I think we should 3-bet this hand, especially given that CO posts a blind and raises from that. We also have SB calling, which means that we probably play against him as well. With this hand, there are many situation when the flush-draw comes in handy, like when we have set+flushdraw, straight+flushdraw, and wrap+flushdraw. If the flush-draw is dead, at least we are blocking his, and we might also have two chances of flushes on the turn.

      Also, this hand is on a 4-person table, so I think that most players will be looser.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 11,158
      CoO has 80bb so he isn't that short. This hand is pretty and has really good flop coverage. But it's easily dominated and when against two opponents it's hard to play postflop (unless you hit set+fd, straight+fd or wrap+fd, which happens rarely). There will be A or K on almost half of the flops, and is the board is made of small cards it's hardish to play against two opponents. So the only time we can really continue is when we hit something strong, which happens still on about half of the flops. Problem comes that even as we have equity vs. opponents ranges, it's hard to get the money in with good equity on average. Sometimes we crush our opponents, but often they have higher flushdraw (and therefore overcard) and money goes in on flips or hero is an underdog.

      This hand needs somewhat specific flop and can't stack off happily on many boards in 3way where hero is sandwiched. That's why I would call. Against one opponent I would 3bet this all day long.