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[NL10] 6's ~ Set OOP

    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Gold
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,480
      PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $23.10 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
      SB: $10.28 (VPIP: 18.20, PFR: 15.34, 3Bet Preflop: 4.78, Hands: 564)
      Hero (BB): $10.15
      UTG: $8.63 (VPIP: 29.03, PFR: 29.03, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 32)
      MP: $8.95 (VPIP: 23.64, PFR: 10.30, 3Bet Preflop: 1.52, Hands: 175)
      CO: $28.91 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

      SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 6:spade: 6:diamond:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, fold, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.95, 3 players) Q:diamond: 6:club: 3:diamond:
      Hero bets $0.61, CO calls $0.61, BTN calls $0.61

      Turn: ($2.78, 3 players) T:diamond:
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.40, fold, Hero calls $1.40

      River: ($5.58, 2 players) A:heart:
      Hero checks, CO bets $3.40, fold

      CO wins $5.33


      Ok line?
  • 12 replies
    • lfcmichael
      lfcmichael
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2016 Posts: 166
      Could you have gone for a x/r OTF instead?

      Turn is fine to call at that price, because we can improve to the FH.

      Check-fold seems sensible OTR.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,009
      I like the lead OTF because wouldn't want to give free cards to multiple opponents and when we are multiway there is a bit higher risk that everyone just checks.
      Then I would continue betting OTT. Possible flush completing is not a reason to slow down and get scared imo. We still get value from some pocket pairs, Qx, 33, and hands that have one diamond. Our hand is still super strong, no reason to start treating it as a draw.
      As played OTR I might not be able to fold. We block a few flush combos with our 6d and villain can have weaker value hands that bet there. Like QT,AT,AQ,33 and we should also include some bluffs there. Possible flush completes and you check, river ace might be a scarecard for you also so in my opinion this might look like a good bluff spot for villain.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,988
      Why are you guys expecting them to check their flush draws a lot?
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,988
      I'm just asking, as PFR I'd cbet a flush draw because you know, initiative, strong hands in range and Qxx he can expect a good amount of folds as it doesn't hit us and bu very hard
      And on the button if it gets checked to me I'm definitely doing the same most of the time
      And if anything I'd expect NL10 regs to not check them back enough
      And a lead not to give freecards straight up makes no sense unless you expect them to check the only signifficant draw here often no?
    • GridironAssassin
      GridironAssassin
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2014 Posts: 71
      Betting turn for sure here.

      As played, hard to find a fold on this river.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,009
      Lemon would you then go for a check raise?
      Not giving free cards is not the only reason to lead there imo. We can steal the initiative and barrel for 3 streets because I think very often our hand is worth that. Since we are OOP we might miss some value if we don't get the initiative there? Villain could call our donk OTF with a hand like broadways+BDFD, he can improve OTT and call again. He might even improve to a good second best hand that calls this down.

      I don't necessarily think villain will check behind his flush draws that often, but he might check his overall range quite often? Or what do you think?
      Ofc if we believe villain is going to make a cbet frequently, then checking makes more sense.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,988
      Yeah I don't see either of them checking a hand you get 2+streets of value out of
      Well maybe hands like QT QJ that CO can check some , but he'd have to be really really bad to call 3 streets when you donk big 3way and bet huge 3 times
      And BU should just bet all of them pretty safely
      And people that overvalue top pairs multiway are likely to do that when betting too I'd assume.

      And all better queens they should bet themselves.

      So you're looking at what AcKc AcJc, well if you're in CO's shoes you still have BU to worry about so it's not easy to float there, on top of you already looking really strong by leading multiway.
      And BU should 3bet those pre
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,009
      There are also some off-suit hands that have 1 diamond and some backdoor straight draws / overcards. Ofc it depends a bit on the turn card if they will call again or not, but I think there should be some hands that could call OTF and then improve a bit OTT so they decide to call again.. So that would be one more street of value from hands that normally would give only one :)
      But yea I get your point.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,988
      Yeah I think the same applies, the CO should be more likely to bet AdKx AdJx than to call them when you lead big and the BU is there
      and same still applies for BU - he should be 3betting those most of the time
      And then if he hits his bluff outs he can keep betting, it's arguable if you're really getting more value (you are if you're comparing vs a check/raise that's true)
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Gold
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,480
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      Why are you guys expecting them to check their flush draws a lot?
      No one said that.

      Originally posted by LemOn36
      I'm just asking, as PFR I'd cbet a flush draw because you know, initiative, strong hands in range and Qxx he can expect a good amount of folds as it doesn't hit us and bu very hard
      And on the button if it gets checked to me I'm definitely doing the same most of the time
      And if anything I'd expect NL10 regs to not check them back enough
      And a lead not to give freecards straight up makes no sense unless you expect them to check the only signifficant draw here often no?
      We have no info on the opponents. These aren't necessarily regs. I think players could easily check 6x 3x back here, possibly some gutshots.

      AS FOR THE HAND
      We sayin I should of lead the turn as well?
      Calling this river?
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,988
      Yeah again you block 6x heavily, and form 3x you're getting one street tops anyways so you gain very little by leading from those.

      We've had a bunch of these spots in the first episode of the new series.
      If you follow our beginner's strategy you indeed correctly lead here,
      If you have a blank approach of "lead monsters multiway" which is solid at micros in many spots again you correctly read here.
      When you start thinking more and start taking every spot individually and think through to next streets, ranges it becomes a pretty clear mistake to lead 2/3 here.


      As played the issue is that your range is pretty face up now to sets, possibly hands like 45dd and I guess people can put you on some pretty bad Qx donks so I'd try to keep telling that story and bet half pot or less and give pairs a chance to call, and be able to call a raise with enough money behind
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,779
      hmm you might beat 33, and he might have 45s. Tough spot.

      Flop: Probably check/call or check/raise is better, I only lead on low/middling boards