[NL2] Overpair on dry, paired board in 3way pot

    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Silver
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 137
      Hey folks,

      how you doing? I hope everything is fine!

      I played this hand, which you can see here.

      My comments and thoughts:

      I didnt raise preflop, because the UTG open raising range should already be quite tight.

      The flop doesnt hit the UTG range very well, so I already was a bit concerned by the 75% cbet leading into 2 opponents.
      The turn could possibly bring lots of monsters into play, especially for the Button calling range, which should have preflop lots of low and middle pairs and suited connectors, of which the latter could have picked up a flushdraw + pair or a gutshot. I think, the buttons range on the turn is very narrow and consists of fullhouses, Tx hands and some diamond-flushdraws + X (pair or gutshot). The UTG's range on the turn is probably a bit weaker than my holding, with some diamond-flushdraws and weaker Tx-hands, since Im sure he wouldve continued betting his overpairs and fullhouses, and check-felt his 2nd pairs.

      On the turn, I am not sure if it was best choice to bet, since I do not know if button is raising some of his made hands for value or if he call his entire range instead for balancing purposes and slowplay. I am not the most experienced and strong 3way-player and had my thoughts on UTGs range. The power of position told me more about his range than buttons range^^

      On the river most bets from the button are for value I guess, with only a few busted draws, so it was very clear for me to fold, although I had a nice bluffcatcher.

      Do you have some thoughts on the topics betsizing, raising preflop, raising on the flop, check-call or check-fold turn?
  • 8 replies
    • AgapieGheorghe
      AgapieGheorghe
      Silver
      Joined: 10.07.2011 Posts: 1,473
      Hello clovenhoofsdoom :f_drink:

      Preflop: Hero is CO with :Qh: :Qs:
      UTG raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.06, BTN calls $0.06, SB folds, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.20) :6h: :Td: :5s: (3 players)
      UTG bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15

      Turn: ($0.64):6d: (3 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40

      River: ($1.79) :Ts: (3 players)
      UTG checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $1.00, UTG fold, Hero fold

      I didnt raise preflop, because the UTG open raising range should already be quite tight.
      If you can share info´s and stats about villain we can actualy pin his range almost 90%.

      Let´s assume he is a reg then and he is really tight, then his range should be something like this :



      Why don´t you want to 3bet in this spot, you still have 3 players behind you and you give them good odds to call behind.
      And you dont want to see an A or K on the flop in a mw pot with your QQ.

      I will always 3bet preflop QQ vs UTG from CO.
      The flop doesnt hit the UTG range very well
      He can still have a bunch of hands from his tight range that have you beat : AA, KK, TT, 66, 55
      ( 30 combos from 160=>18% of his OR)


      As you played folding river is the right call of course.
    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Silver
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 137
      Hi AgapieGheorghe,

      thank you for the formating work, very appreciated! I have never made those handconverters do the job, but since I'm new to pokerstars, I should try it again.

      I do not use stats ingame. The last time I used holdem manager 2, the handnumbers were way too small to get even close to have reliable # on the important spots and statistics. OK VPIP and PFR you can have some good counts, but because holdem manager added to the amount of things you have to think about, it didnt help me so much. In fact, I feel safer and better without constantly looking onto some statistics. That doesnt mean it isnt important to know as much as you can, but if I struggle with the basics, why should I go on to the next level.

      Your thoughts about 3betting QQ preflop are intriguing and good! I really don't feel too familiar with 3betting UTG and MP.

      Thanks mate, your input is very appreciated!
    • GridironAssassin
      GridironAssassin
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2014 Posts: 38
      If QQ is not in your range for 3betting pre, what is your range for 3 betting pre? What are your value 3bets and what are your bluffs? Queens should be a value 3b every time here.

      Post flop, I like the way you played it.
    • KatalonacX
      KatalonacX
      Silver
      Joined: 22.11.2013 Posts: 92
      QQ you should add in 3bet range vs every position, expecialy to avoid situation like this.OTT bet or check is fine,OTR is check-fold.
    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Silver
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 137
      Cool! Awesome advices and comments!

      I had my first royal flush on pokerstars, and won more than 1 buyin with it :f_cool: See it here

      After this discussion I had some thinking work done on 3bet ranges, and yeah, on pokerstars I feel I really beat the NL2 Limit, I have had some bad coolers, but this forum helps me setting my play on the next level. I started to pause the game whenever I feel like it to open Equilab and make some guesses. I really like the feeling of being challenged this way :) but personally, I think it always will be just a hobby, the money has to be earned good old way^^
    • AgapieGheorghe
      AgapieGheorghe
      Silver
      Joined: 10.07.2011 Posts: 1,473
      Congrats for your first Royal flush ! :nh:

      Even if u are more of a NIT you still have in your range like 60 combination with an A card when you 3bet from BU vs CO.

      And on that flop : :Ac: :Jc: :Qc: you kinda always gonna check behind :Ax: here.

      When the Turn comes :Ad: and he only bets 12cents with your implied odds i think you can call for your Full house draw with your :Ax: hand. ( if we assume he has a monster hand like a Flush )

      River when you shove there vs his overbet on that board he should find a FOLD. You will never shove there with a Flush. He coulda saved 110bb. But hey this is NL2 :D

      Congratz again for you hand !

      P.S. You never know, if you put enough work and you really like to study and play poker you can do this as a full job some day :f_biggrin:
    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Silver
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 137
      Thanks :)

      Sweet that you said it can be done as fulltime job, but for this road to be taken, there are so many things I have to learn before, like for instance: how can I do it legally in germany? If someone is in this spot and wants to teach me how to do it legally - youre more than welcome!
    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Silver
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 137
      Roflmao!! I had my 2nd royal flush on poker stars in just 2 days!!! *cant stop wanking*