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wtf??! am i doing something wrong?

    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      (TL;DR, read bolds)

      Hey guys, I suppose I'll start with introductions...

      My online handle is sc2zerker, the name suggests a full starcraft 2 zerker. I used to be online pro game player playing a game called starcraft 2. I played on the best NA team. If you interested more on that topic i suggest googling "zerker starcraft 2" for videos and posts.

      Also I've reached Diamond in the popular game League of Legends with the handle sc2zerker... All this said and done, reaching past the top 1% playerbase mark in these game was fun, but didn't earn me a ton of cash. (some small tournament winnings).. thus the change to poker...

      I've recently come back to poker after a couple years break, so I have a fresh view on the game. I've decided to play NL HE Cash games, 6 max as my primary game. From what i've read it's pretty chaotic and more variance but I believe the aggressive play style may suit my play style the best.

      I've started playing at pokerstars. I had $2 left in my account and was granted a couple welcome back tickets. I turned that into $6 starting capital, then played NL HE and went as high at $20. After that, a downwards swing occurred and I busted.

      The bust was good I suppose, I took a couple days to analyse my play, change a few things, watch videos. Here's a list of positive changes I've made to my game to improve my earnings...

      - Installed tracking software, that's free at my limits.. (Hand2note)
      - Created a HUD (Head's up display, see below)
      - Cleaned my pokerstars interface, for easier multi-tabling
      - Learned more poker lingo, "3bet, Cbet, ect..."
      - Learned my first strategy "set mining"
      - Read the tight-aggresive playstyle on pokerstrategy
      - Learned UTG, MPG, CO, BTN, SB, BB, and placed myself on some lose pre-flop ranges i'll play
      - Change my betting, 1/2, 2/3, pot, max(control pot size).. 3BB only raise
      - started a new $50 bankroll (25 buyins)...


      Head's up display


      After the improvements mentioned above I started playing again. I deposited my first $20 at pokerstars with the bonus THIRTY code, which gives me 10$ extra cash, and (20) $1 sit'n go spin tickets... (a free $30 value + $20 investment = $50 total value, reloaded). It's a relief being able to track my games and play with a little more direction instead of randomly betting...

      Earnings
      Below is a chart of my earnings, It's a little misleading.. I busted with my original $20 lead, so you could say i'm $34(17 buyin's) down

  • 56 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,015
      it's extremely likely that you are doing something wrong. post hand histories in the discussion forums here or something
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 37,360
      The sample is small, but it looks like you are bluffing to much, because you have a profitable non-showdown line and the rest is bad. Also bluffing on NL2 isn’t to smart against most players.

      Off course posting hands would help for sure.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      Originally posted by SDK1987
      The sample is small, but it looks like you are bluffing to much, because you have a profitable non-showdown line and the rest is bad. Also bluffing on NL2 isn’t to smart against most players.

      Off course posting hands would help for sure.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      it's extremely likely that you are doing something wrong. post hand histories in the discussion forums here or something
      Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate that. Below is some stats of my play...

      I was laying in bed thinking about this last night... I was thinking i might be bluffing too often, going to showdown with a muck. I'm happy to hear SDK1987 suggestion.

      Hold'em (Real Money):

      2000 hands played and saw flop:
      - 93 times out of 378 while in small blind (25%)
      - 124 times out of 378 while in big blind (33%)
      - 176 times out of 1244 in other positions (14%)
      - a total of 393 times out of 2000 (20%)

      Pots won at showdown - 61 out of 136 (45%)
      Pots won without showdown - 322



      200 game hand history
      https://ufile.io/2vh47
    • AgapieGheorghe
      AgapieGheorghe
      Silver
      Joined: 10.07.2011 Posts: 1,517
      Hey sc2zerker i like the way you organized your blog.
      I also played LOL on Eu-WE and on EU-Ne server, the highest rank was Plat 1, 2 years ago.

      Post more hands and i´m sure someone with more experience will help you every time.

      *****************************************************************************************************


      Hand Information
      PokerStars No Limit, 0.02 BB (6 handed).

      Table Information
      Seat: 1 Player 1 ($1.58) Dealer
      Seat: 2 Player 2 ($3.85) Small Blind
      Seat: 3 Player 3 ($6.59) Big Blind
      Seat: 4 Player 4 ($2.23)
      Seat: 5 Player 5 ($2.23)
      Seat: 6 Hero ($1.11)
      Dealt to Hero
      :Ts:  :Tc:  

      Preflop (Pot:0.03)
      Player 4    FOLD
      Player 5    FOLD
      Hero    RAISE $0.06
      Player 1    CALL $0.06
      Player 2    RAISE $0.24
      Player 3    FOLD
      Hero    CALL $0.18
      Player 1    CALL $0.18

      I see two problems here :

        1. You dont have a full stack, you should always have a full stack at the table.
        Learned my first strategy "set mining"
        2. You can´t call here for set mining with your stack.
        blinds 3 cents + 6c your bet + 6 c BU call + 23c SB squeeze => POT SIZE = 38 c if u call here you add another 18 c so the POT SIZE = 56 c and you have behind only 87 cents
        Your options preflop are : All-in or Fold.



      *****************************************************************************************************


      Hand Information
      PokerStars No Limit, 0.02 BB (6 handed).
      Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

      Table Information
      Seat: 1 Player 1 ($3.08) Small Blind
      Seat: 2 Hero ($2.38) Big Blind
      Seat: 3 Player 3 ($3.81)
      Seat: 4 Player 4 ($2.58)
      Seat: 5 Player 5 ($1.69)
      Seat: 6 Player 6 ($1.86) Dealer
      Dealt to Hero
      :6d:  :6h:  

      Preflop (Pot:0.03)
      Player 3    RAISE $0.06
      Player 4    CALL $0.06
      Player 5    FOLD
      Player 6    FOLD
      Player 1    FOLD
      Hero    CALL $0.04

      Flop(Pot: $0.19)
      :Ts:  :Js:  :6s:  

      This is not a great flop for your set in a multi way pot
      Hero    BET $0.09

      You decided to DONK here, in my opinion the best line is check/call here, i dont want to bet and get raised here on this flop
      Player 3    CALL $0.09
      Player 4    RAISE $0.42

      UTG calls your DONK and MP raise your bet and he raise big, this is why i prefer check/calling the flop, now we are in a bad spot. You dont not have the right ODDS to call his raise, you only have 6 outs
      Hero    ALL-IN

      You should just give up on the flop when he raise you and cut your loss with only 13 cents

      *****************************************************************************************************

      I checked a few hands and the biggest leak i think is your tendency to DONK all the time. I´ve seen you doing this with 2nd pair, 3th pair and with air.

      Post hands, ask questions and we will try to help you.

      I wish you good luck with your challenge ! I will follow you :f_drink:
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      Originally posted by AgapieGheorghe
      Hey sc2zerker i like the way you organized your blog.
      I also played LOL on Eu-WE and on EU-Ne server, the highest rank was Plat 1, 2 years ago.

      Post more hands and i´m sure someone with more experience will help you every time.

      *****************************************************************************************************


      Hand Information
      PokerStars No Limit, 0.02 BB (6 handed).

      Table Information
      Seat: 1 Player 1 ($1.58) Dealer
      Seat: 2 Player 2 ($3.85) Small Blind
      Seat: 3 Player 3 ($6.59) Big Blind
      Seat: 4 Player 4 ($2.23)
      Seat: 5 Player 5 ($2.23)
      Seat: 6 Hero ($1.11)
      Dealt to Hero
      :Ts:  :Tc:  

      Preflop (Pot:0.03)
      Player 4    FOLD
      Player 5    FOLD
      Hero    RAISE $0.06
      Player 1    CALL $0.06
      Player 2    RAISE $0.24
      Player 3    FOLD
      Hero    CALL $0.18
      Player 1    CALL $0.18

      I see two problems here :

        1. You dont have a full stack, you should always have a full stack at the table.
        Learned my first strategy "set mining"
        2. You can´t call here for set mining with your stack.
        blinds 3 cents + 6c your bet + 6 c BU call + 23c SB squeeze => POT SIZE = 38 c if u call here you add another 18 c so the POT SIZE = 56 c and you have behind only 87 cents
        Your options preflop are : All-in or Fold.



      *****************************************************************************************************


      Hand Information
      PokerStars No Limit, 0.02 BB (6 handed).
      Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

      Table Information
      Seat: 1 Player 1 ($3.08) Small Blind
      Seat: 2 Hero ($2.38) Big Blind
      Seat: 3 Player 3 ($3.81)
      Seat: 4 Player 4 ($2.58)
      Seat: 5 Player 5 ($1.69)
      Seat: 6 Player 6 ($1.86) Dealer
      Dealt to Hero
      :6d:  :6h:  

      Preflop (Pot:0.03)
      Player 3    RAISE $0.06
      Player 4    CALL $0.06
      Player 5    FOLD
      Player 6    FOLD
      Player 1    FOLD
      Hero    CALL $0.04

      Flop(Pot: $0.19)
      :Ts:  :Js:  :6s:  

      This is not a great flop for your set in a multi way pot
      Hero    BET $0.09

      You decided to DONK here, in my opinion the best line is check/call here, i dont want to bet and get raised here on this flop
      Player 3    CALL $0.09
      Player 4    RAISE $0.42

      UTG calls your DONK and MP raise your bet and he raise big, this is why i prefer check/calling the flop, now we are in a bad spot. You dont not have the right ODDS to call his raise, you only have 6 outs
      Hero    ALL-IN

      You should just give up on the flop when he raise you and cut your loss with only 13 cents

      *****************************************************************************************************

      I checked a few hands and the biggest leak i think is your tendency to DONK all the time. I´ve seen you doing this with 2nd pair, 3th pair and with air.

      Post hands, ask questions and we will try to help you.

      I wish you good luck with your challenge ! I will follow you :f_drink:
      Thanks for the analysis,

      I've changed my client to auto re-buy to keep me at 100BB ($2) NL 1/2...
      I have also re-read the rule regarding the 20x rule with set mining.

      I do agree with the heavy spade flop, its better to play more passive there.

      Cheers
    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      You are a beginning player and your goal should be 'not to loose'.
      I think poker is a tricky game and you can not expect to win immediately, even when you're extremely smart and read a lot of books.

      Some 'not to loose' rules:
      a) Find a tight opening range based on position (maybe someone else can point one out here).
      b) Fold when your hand is not in that range!!
      c) Try to understand the importance of position ( !!! IT IS MASSIVE INSANELY IMPORTANT!!!! ). In other words, avoid AT ALL cost to play out of position.
      d) Try to keep the pot small with 'small' hands (sooo much easier in position, here you go).
      e) Get the pot as big as possible with 'big' hands.
      f) Do not call all ins with small hands!

      What is a small hand?
      This is a small hand: :Ah: :Js: and the board :Tc: :As: :7d: :2h: :8c:
      It looks like a big hand, but it is a small hand.

      Hope this helps
    • ben002
      ben002
      Silver
      Joined: 03.03.2018 Posts: 59
      Hi sc2zerker :f_drink: ,

      for my first 2.5k hands my graph looks pretty much exactly like yours!
      Nice to find a kindred soul around!
      I think even at the micros an aggression-based style like that can be viable. I am still at NL2 myself and it seems to work pretty well for me now (17BB/100 for my first 8.5K hands mainly through making people fold :f_cool: ). I am also only a beginner, but here are some things which are really helping me:
      When you want an aggressive bluff-heavy style to work it is very important that you observe your opponents closely and try to figure out which spots in their game you have to attack to make them fold. You can't just blindly fire bets at them especially because some opponents will simply NEVER fold. This is much easier, when you only play one or two tables at once. Even when you are not involved in a hand the game still continues and you still can participate by gathering information. And even without all this opponent-reading stuff there are so many things to think about in this game. I sincerely still can't even manage one table.
      If you are too aggressive all the time people also will stop believing you. So: Tame your aggression and safe it for the spots where it will help you. Also remember that the big money is usually at showdown. So when you have a good hand you don't want people to actually fold and rather keep them in the pot. This is where being overly aggressive can be detrimental to your winnings. Also (and that's what I am worst at): FOLD sometimes! Know when to give up and if you have to give up, do it as early as possible! It will safe you a LOT of money!
      I still can't do well most of the things I described above, but focusing on them seems to help me.
      I think its vital to learn a lot of theory in the beginning. Poker is different to most other games in the sense that you can't base your learning on results. If a decision in poker was right always depends on the reasoning which lead to it, never on the results. So just learning by doing is pretty tough when it comes to poker.

      I definitely wish you the best of luck!
      Let's show the world, that you don't need to be the typical TAG to beat the micros!
    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      @ben002
      I'm in awe with your aggression-based style and I totally understand that you want to teach others but...........

      As I read your blog you already have experience. I do not know how much but you definitely have.
      sc2zerker has just begun, has not even played 2K of hands. You give him the etudes of Chopin while he just finished My First Piano Adventure

      Your style is I think a really advanced way of playing poker with a high variance. I do not think it is for beginners.

      That said again: I would LOVE to see some of your bully bets and moves, where you muscle people of their hands!

      PS this is not at all personal critique, I's an old experienced piano teacher speaking.
    • ben002
      ben002
      Silver
      Joined: 03.03.2018 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by RubbyDubby
      Your style is I think a really advanced way of playing poker ...
      Haha, I wish this would be true! =)
      After roughly 9k hands I can't even know for certain yet if I will be breaking even on the long run.
      Before starting NL 6max I had around 2k hands in NL FR and 10 years ago I had about 20k hands in fixed-limit FR.
      I think the main difference between me and maybe other beginners might be that I am cosequently single-tabling and therefore can follow a very opponent-oriented approach and take more time with my decisions, which sometimes works and sometimes not. :f_rolleyes:

      So you are a piano teacher. That's very cool! I have a slight musical background myself and been playing accordion and piano quite intensively for a while, not recently though and not at a professional level.

      Well I definitely don't mean to overtake this thread!

      I just can recommend playing fewer tables in the beginning @sc2zerker 318 hands/h looks like you were already 4 tabling. I think this is more then most beginners could handle.

      I wish the best of luck!
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      Quick update, since I made some changed to my game... I understand its a small sample going from 1,600 hands to 4,900 but wanted to share the positive results...

    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      Originally posted by sc2zerker
      Quick update, since I made some changed to my game... I understand its a small sample going from 1,600 hands to 4,900 but wanted to share the positive results...

      @sc2zerker Here you go! (with you EV line you're back to 0!)

      @ben002 Yeah I read you played poker 10 years but I missed the fixed limit and no of hands part of it (I'm not a piano teacher anymore. I switched 20 years ago to IT).
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,949
      Oh a SC2 player, best of luck to ya, I played Broodwar for years seriously :)
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      feels bad man,


    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      Woo wait.... You're 6 buy ins below EV! :wtf:
      That is for everybody hard but especially hard for a beginning player and it will influence for sure your gameplay.

      You're graph tells. Some really bad beats and then BAM your line goes down (all your lines go down!).

      What helps me in this situation is:
      Stop playing and start thinking about the strategy you want to use to stop your downswing (tighten up helps).
      Then play again but play less tables. Play two, play disciplined and pay to bend those lines back in the proper direction.
      When they pointing up again you can add a table.

      We've all been there but somebody hit the doomswitch quickly in you poker career.
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      Originally posted by RubbyDubby
      Woo wait.... You're 6 buy ins below EV! :wtf:
      That is for everybody hard but especially hard for a beginning player and it will influence for sure your gameplay.

      You're graph tells. Some really bad beats and then BAM your line goes down (all your lines go down!).

      What helps me in this situation is:
      Stop playing and start thinking about the strategy you want to use to stop your downswing (tighten up helps).
      Then play again but play less tables. Play two, play disciplined and pay to bend those lines back in the proper direction.
      When they pointing up again you can add a table.

      We've all been there but somebody hit the doomswitch quickly in you poker career.
      Thanks for pointing out the EV... Was feeling pretty bad but that gives me more confidence that i'm playing correctly but hitting a bit of an unlucky street.
    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      Originally posted by sc2zerker
      Thanks for pointing out the EV... Was feeling pretty bad but that gives me more confidence that i'm playing correctly but hitting a bit of an unlucky street.
      After those hands (about hand 6500) you were playing poorly and were not lucky) I'm 99% sure of that, your graph shows.
      Don't worry, that is totally normal but if you're aware of it you can do some about it.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,949
      I took a look
      needes to wake up xD
      here's a quick vid
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/16wpTfXPY9L8JG2C88ERCsnAw-8a5DHQw/view?usp=sharing
    • sc2zerker
      sc2zerker
      Silver
      Joined: 21.12.2012 Posts: 203
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      I took a look
      needes to wake up xD
      here's a quick vid
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/16wpTfXPY9L8JG2C88ERCsnAw-8a5DHQw/view?usp=sharing
      Thanks for the the video Lemon.

      I've created a video blog this time going over some hands that focus on my gameplay with suited connectors.

    • nsavov
      nsavov
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 1,054
      Hey... so some quick fixes:
      Learn the terminology, you say I raise, but there is no bet before you... so you bet. And the bet on the turn is not a "re-raise". Its called a turn cbet or second barrel :f_thumbsup:

      I disagree with most of what you were saying. Please dont feel like you are being made fun of... The fact you put a blog up tells me you want to learn, thats why i even bother commenting! :f_drink:



      T8s is unnecessary, but good open UTG if you play good postflop. You can stick to folding it at this point

      The 3x CO isolation with 87s is OK too. You can limp also. It depends on the button's playing style. You would much prefer if the button folded so you have the ultimate position in the hand.

      The 54s call from SB is bad. Even when you are 150bb deep it is an awful hand to play out of position and without closing the action. The flop bet is reasonable but you can go with check-call or check-raise and stackoff. Its one of those hand that you cant really missplay until the river. BTW you have a double-gutter on the turn. The river bet of half-pot is losing. And you said "maybe im trying to bluff". If you choose to bet there should be a strong reason behind it. If you want to bluff out a weak K, or 8, or 6, or pairs 77-QQ you should bet alot bigger on the river. I agree a check is probably best here.

      The 98s... choosing to cbet-bluff this hand with the backdoor straight and flush outs means that you should continue firing the turn if you make a draw. Maybe also if the turn is an A or K. The third 7 is by far the worst card on the turn to bet small on. Basically no hand that calls the flop is going to fold the turn and probably never the river.

      87s from SB is ok call... you can 3bet also. Donk betting these kind of boards is reasonable vs UTG, MP and CO but the button hits this board even better than your range. So generally you should check these flops vs the button from the SB. The river you should check-call. Give him a chance to bluff. and if you lose-you lose the same amount as if you bet and got called (or raised) by better

      The 64s is a fold, nice catch

      THe 65s from SB is fold/3bet. And leading every time you hit something opens you up to being raised thinly for value and get bluffed alot. Just stop leading :)

      THe 43s is a fold vs limp from UTG. Even if you are first in its close of an open. Play tighter for now!

      65s vs 3bet - fooooold. No, you shouldnt defend weak hands at these limits. The rake is going to kill every potential equity you are trying to defend.




      So to sum up your leaks:
      You love low suited connectors too much. They are good to steal with. Or to play multiway pots with good odds. You shouldnt defend them in a game with such a high rake.
      You play out of position too much.
      You are playing too aggro out of position.
      You are making some bets without a reason, just because you dont know what else to do. Checking is an option too, you know....

      I hope I helped even a little bit :f_cool: