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[NL2] KQo 4bet bluff

    • Dandiiik
      Dandiiik
      Silver
      Joined: 19.07.2009 Posts: 1,823
      Hi,

      villain is one of those tighter regs 18/12/7 after 250 hands. This is one of those hands which I talked about in my blog. In these later positions I like to 4bet bluff with blocker hands but it doesnt seem to be working for me. Any general advice on 4bet bluffing on NL2? Should I even be doing it? And against whom? I suppose against looser regs who are capable of folding their 3bet bluffs?

      In this case in retrospective I think it was a bad 4bet bluff. Firstly, he is rather tight and passive. And secondly his 3bet sizing is 4x which itself is an indicator of stronger range.

      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $2.15 (107.5 bb)
      BB: $2.06 (103 bb)
      UTG: $2.18 (109 bb)
      MP: $1.11 (55.5 bb)
      Hero (CO): $2.25 (112.5 bb)
      BTN: $1.94 (97 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with :Qd: :Kc:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.05, BTN folds, SB raises to $0.20, BB folds, Hero raises to $0.50, SB calls $0.30

      Flop: ($1.02) :7h: :8c: :5h: (2 players)
      SB bets $1.65 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Results: $1.02 pot ($0.04 rake)
      Final Board: :7h: :8c: :5h:
      SB mucked and won $0.98 ($0.48 net)
      Hero mucked :Qd: :Kc: and lost (-$0.50 net)
  • 6 replies
    • Alleen86
      Alleen86
      Silver
      Joined: 27.05.2010 Posts: 5,315
      Are you using linear or polar 4-bet strategies? If you 4-bet KQo in this situation, it seems you are using linear strategies (4-bet better hands and then call worse hands than those you 4-bet). When facing 3-bets, it's better to use polar strategies in general, which means that we 4-bet strongest hands for value, call hands which are too good to fold, but are not good enough to value 4-bets, and 4-bet bluff hands that are not good enough to call. (In average the entire defending range vs 3-bets should be around 45% of our openning range.) This is because people usually don't call 4-bets, especially OOP, which means that if we 4-bet hands like KQo in this situation, we will isolate ourselves vs a better range which he shoves, i.e., we are bluffing with a hand which stands well vs villain's 3-bet range, but not vs his continuing range vs 4-bets.

      So, if we 4-bet a hand like KQo in this situation, he will only fold worse hands and shove the rest (in general), so we miss some profitable spots that could occur postflop when we call.

      That's somewhat the same principle as when we are deciding is it better to 3-bet polar or linear range. If villain is 4-bet alot, then it's better to have polar ranges, because if we 3-bet linear ranges, then we miss value with some good hands we will have to fold vs his 4-bets. Also, if villain folds alot to 3-bets, then it's also better to have polar ranges because we want to expand our 3-bet bluff ranges with hands that are not good enough to call and we don't want to 3-bet bluff hands with which we will gain value postflop and isolate only vs better hands if he 4-bets. The more villain calls vs 3-bets, the more we want to have linear 3-bet ranges because we will dominate more of his hands postflop.

      If we switch to 4-bets: The more villain calls vs 4-bets, the more we want to have linear 4-bet ranges because we will dominate more of his hands postflop. And the fact is that calling 4-bets is not that common at lower stakes.
    • Dandiiik
      Dandiiik
      Silver
      Joined: 19.07.2009 Posts: 1,823
      Hi Alleen, thank you it was really helpful. I use ranges by W34z3l but I dont know how to use them quickly in action. The only tool I know where to put my ranges is Equilab which is forbidden to use while playing on Pokerstars. So I dont know how to use them quickly while playing. KQo is there as a call in this spot. To be honest I did the 4bet in this hand just because I felt like it :f_rolleyes:

      So according to my default ranges I should have called. Do you have any tip where to put my ranges so they would be accessible instantly?
    • Alleen86
      Alleen86
      Silver
      Joined: 27.05.2010 Posts: 5,315
      Originally posted by Dandiiik
      So according to my default ranges I should have called. Do you have any tip where to put my ranges so they would be accessible instantly?
      I know, actually. :f_biggrin: Just click to "My Excel ranges available for downloading" below my post. You can then download the file I've made based on w34z3l's old ranges. But if you have new ranges, you can change things in the file. Just unprotect the sheet with the pass BD86tJzZ. :f_drink:
    • feye7
      feye7
      Silver
      Joined: 13.08.2014 Posts: 61
      Why worry about 4bet bluffing on NL2?
    • Dandiiik
      Dandiiik
      Silver
      Joined: 19.07.2009 Posts: 1,823
      @Alleen, man I did not notice that. So great, thank you! :f_thumbsup:

      @feye7, I dont worry about it too much. I know that 4bet bluffs are not number one tool to be profitable on NL2. But I am trying to be as solid preflop as possible already and I want to know what to do in any situation. And even on NL2 there are some regs whose 3bets are exploitable by 4bet bluffing. But I agree, it is one of the spots about which it is not necessary to worry too much :f_drink:
    • RubbyDubby
      RubbyDubby
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2018 Posts: 193
      Hi.. My 2 cents.
      I stopped 4 betting as a bluff at 2NL cuz had same.. Almost never works and almost never is not enough to be profitable.

      Something else. Do not try to play a 5NL or 10NL strategy at 2NL. Reason:

      Today I descended back down to 2NL and my red line went down again. At 5NL it is a straight line. But that goes eh.. naturally. I don't know.
      At 5NL I started off again with lotsa steals and 3 bets but within no time I was 2 BI down cuz all just call and there you are with your 92 suited at the BTN. It's different!

      What I mean is it will come by itself if you move up I think. Have the best strategy for 2NL when you play 2NL!

      Good luck!