[NL2-NL10] NL25 FR - A,A - pf push?

    • Tim64
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,400
      Known players:

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A:club: , A:spade:
      UTG1 calls $0.25, UTG2 raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.50, 7 folds, UTG2 calls $1.75.

      Flop: ($5.60) 5:diamond: , 7:spade: , Q:heart: (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero raises $2.40 (All-In), UTG2 folds.

      Final Pot: $8.00

      Sorry, this is probably pretty basic, but should I have pushed pf to UTG 3BB raise or is my 3x re-raise alright? More likely to get called, maybe?
  • 6 replies
    • dandycal
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hey Tim,

      I'd raise to 2,25 (3x0,25) and push flop.
    • williamtywong
      Joined: 19.01.2009 Posts: 123
      hey tim.

      I agree with your play and i too would raise 3X his raise. however, according to the new SSS charts, you're supposed to push all in directly. weird stuff.

      anyways, nh, push on flop good too.
    • Tim64
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,400
      Interesting. Can we have a judges' ruling, please?

      I can see the merits of both plays. Your way - and the way I played - seems like a good idea, because it means I don't have to go all-in preflop and therefore I'm more likely to be called. And, since I have A,A I actually want to go to a flop because I'm ahead 80% of the time.

      On the other hand the 'book' play is to push all in pf, (because 3xraise + one for each caller = more than half my stack) and this seems unintuitive since I'm much less likely to get called with a push than a std reraise. With A,A I don't have to worry about any scary boards, so I'm always pushing on the flop, so it seems like this is less +EV.
    • beerthababe
      Joined: 19.12.2006 Posts: 146
      $2.25 preflop, push flop would be my move.
    • Meiffert
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Originally posted by Tim64
      With A,A I don't have to worry about any scary boards, so I'm always pushing on the flop, so it seems like this is less +EV.
      Well, the problem is that you can't reraise small to "trap" your opponent with AA and push directly with AK or JJ because you are afraid of ugly flop where you could make a mistake.
      You have to play the same way both time otherwise your opponents will spot this pattern in your game and fold against your AA-reraise and call a push against weaker holdings.

      And there is no absolute truth in choosing the correct play in my opinion.
      If you are confident with your flop play, you can raise as you did and decide on the flop (altough you would probably be pushing the flop 90 % of the times anyway as a continuation bet).
      The preflop all-in is definitely the easier way to go and prevents you from making any mistakes later in the hand. That's probably the main reason why this aproach is recommended in the basic strategy article for begginers (I still kinda like it more though as I c-bet the flop all-in anyway and then I often get called by a better hand when c-betting missed AK or JJ on A-high flop and the worse hands get the oportunity to fold).
    • Gerv
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Raising normally with ~50% of your stack or shoving directly is only a question of EV maximalization.

      I'd go for the Shove because you would shove this one with AK rather than raising with AK, miss the flop but still shoving the flop since Pot >> Stack.

      Ofcourse I would do the same with JJ/AK for example so when you reraise like this with AA, do the same with AK and then it becomes difficult because you only hit a A or K 28.9% of the time.

      Best regards,