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Spin4play’s challenge was an ordinary fraud!

    • MRtito2
      MRtito2
      Basic
      Joined: 28.05.2013 Posts: 7
      I was thinking about writing this post for quite a long time. Much proof came up in the last couple of weeks and all of them confirm that the whole challenge was nothing else but a fraud.

      The „Legend” of Alvaro Romero started with a famous bet for playing 20K games in 2 months (you may find it here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-amp-challenges/spin-amp-go-propbet-two-months-20k-games-100-stakes-2-5-evroi-pre-rakeback-1591843/. The „achievement” of Spin4play turned out to be a legendary hoax instead. First information about the deception came from people close to Spin4play. Shortly thereafter, the news has begun to circulate at poker forums and in private conversations.

      As a result, PokerStars began an internal investigation. On the 8th of May 2018, it was confirmed that Alvaro Romero has been cheating during the challenge. PokerStars penalized Romero’s behavior by applying the strictest punishment – a permanent ban of his account with forfeiture of all funds.



      It turned out that Spin4play was using prohibited software that allowed him to select weaker opponents. The software was able to connect to PokerStars databases and use it to inform a player of the people waiting in the registration queue. This resulted in a significant advantage of Spin4play over his opponents, as he was able to choose the games where only recreational players were registered. Below a link to the interface of the program (thanks to the courtesy of third parties):



      Spin4play defrauded people who bet against him for more than $100,000.00!!! As if it was not enough, he was buying additional shares during the bet, knowing that he can boost his scores at any time thanks to the illegal program he was using. Below you may find his post published few days after the bet had started:



      After the bet, Alvaro entered into a cooperation with one of the biggest Poker schools – Poker Strategy, which is still actively promoting Alvaro’s stable „Spin Legends” and his challenge. I assume Poker Strategy does not know yet about the practices of one of their main partners. Therefore, I am informing Poker Strategy and asking them to cease the cooperation and actively help to retrieve the defrauded funds.






      I have lost $30.000,00 and considering all facts I am demanding full recompensation along with the amount I should have got for winning a bet. This is the only fair scenario I can imagine right now.

      If you have also been cheated by Spin4play, please write in this topic.
  • 36 replies
    • utg92
      utg92
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2010 Posts: 26
      WOW!!!!!!111 I didn't believe in this guy from the beginning to be honest. Are we witnesses the biggest scam in the history of online poker? :f_rolleyes: :f_o: :f_mad:
    • tonypmm
      tonypmm
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2009 Posts: 4,869
      Originally posted by MRtito2
      I assume Poker Strategy does not know yet about the practices of one of their main partners. Therefore, I am informing Poker Strategy and asking them to cease the cooperation and actively help to retrieve the defrauded funds.
      I do think that, to save its public image, PS-gy must part ways with with Alvaro while preserving its own staking business with the funds contributed by those co-investors that joined after the partnership started, or even find new investors while maintaining the existing infrastructure and staff without Alvaro.

      However, I think that PS-gy as a whole is not responsible for the fraud that occurred before the start of the partnership and doesn't owe the prop bettors any money. Only Alvaro and those who were his partners in crime at the time of its commitment are responsible for that.
    • BadHabit1989
      BadHabit1989
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2016 Posts: 780
      :(
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 11,030
      Official response from SpinLegends as posted in the 2+2 thread

      Hi everyone,

      Thank you sharing your questions and concerns with us.

      As for the spin4play questions, we are not able to comment on this as it's a personal account situation, unrelated to the current business operations.

      As for the mentioned concern of SpinLegends encouraging its players to use illegal software or cheating/scamming in any way, rest assured this is NOT true. SpinLegends has never encouraged its players to use software that is not accepted by PokerStars - like any seating scripts, any tools showing player queues, any botting or any other prohibited in play support. SpinLegends has NEVER encouraged players to any unfair behaviour like this, so any posts suggesting this are in nature completely defamatory.

      We perceive any prohibited in-play support as totally unacceptable and we actively discourage the use of ANY prohibited software amongst our players. As a team we are committed to promoting game integrity and fair play. It is a part of our SpinLegends' mission and we take it seriously.

      Our players improve and move up the stakes thanks to the support of dozens of our coaches and community workers, thanks to our proven Spin & Go strategies and mainly due to dedication of our players. There was never any need for “extra help” such as forbidden software or in-game support. There are hundreds of players who can confirm this, as they were or still are part of our team.

      SpinLegends encourages fair competition and with that in mind you can rest assured you will not be in any unfair disadvantage when playing against a player who benefits from SpinLegends staking and education.

      Thanks,
      SpinLegends Team
    • Vengeance166
      Vengeance166
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2012 Posts: 567
      Does somebody know if the Legend himself is still doing coaching sessions, or is in any way connected with the operations of the stable?
    • Antohitch
      Antohitch
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2012 Posts: 807
      Originally posted by utg92
      WOW!!!!!!111 I didn't believe in this guy from the beginning to be honest. Are we witnesses the biggest scam in the history of online poker? :f_rolleyes: :f_o: :f_mad:
      What about FREEQ7Z and his 20k tourneys in one month than?
    • BadHabit1989
      BadHabit1989
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2016 Posts: 780
      Originally posted by Antohitch
      Originally posted by utg92
      WOW!!!!!!111 I didn't believe in this guy from the beginning to be honest. Are we witnesses the biggest scam in the history of online poker? :f_rolleyes: :f_o: :f_mad:
      What about FREEQ7Z and his 20k tourneys in one month than?
      makes it even more impressive considering he doubled the volume, suceeded and is not yet banned from pokerstars :f_tongue:

      I just hope all this story will turn out to be one big nightmare, and one day I wake up and everything is back to normal with alvaro still being a legend :(

      I still believe in him and hope those are all false accusations until proofen otherwise.
    • badk1tty
      badk1tty
      Basic
      Joined: 14.04.2016 Posts: 43
      This is so unethical and disgusting. And I think PokerStrategy should cut ties with him immediately if true and probably suspend all advertising with him during this situation.
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,524
      Dear all,

      thanks for discussing this matter in our forum.

      Firstly, we would like to assure you that we are actively looking into this situation. Already last week we have made a statement within SpinLegends stable clarifying matters from company perspective:

      Originally posted by SvenBe
      Dear SpinLegends members,

      You might have heard the allegations about SpinLegends founder Alvaro ‘spin4play’ Romero using a certain seating script (illegal software) during the 20k challenge in March/April 2016, which allegedly resulted in his PokerStars account being banned.

      Whilst this is a personal matter of Alvaro, we want to share with you the view of SpinLegends as a company:

        1. First and foremost, SpinLegends has always perceived any prohibited in-play support as totally unacceptable and we have been actively discouraging our players from using any seating scripts, any tools showing player queues, any botting or any other prohibited in-play support. We will continue to do so. Our mission is to encourage fair play and genuine player achievements.

        2. Secondly, we currently can´t know for sure whether the allegations against Alvaro are based on some true merits or not, because these are personal account matters. We believe everybody is “innocent until proven guilty” and we will be monitoring the situation for now.

        3. We checked the situation with Alvaro and Alvaro assured us that the allegations are not true. We never had a reason to doubt spin4play. We know he is a great player and a great coach. We are concerned with the allegations made on 2p2 and we will keep you posted, if there are any important developments.

        4. For avoidance of doubt we started SpinLegends company together with Alvaro in December 2016. We were thrilled to work with Alvaro, whom we considered a genius strategic mind and one of the most talented Spin&Go players with a true dedication for helping others improve. Already back then in December 2016 we checked public data about Alvaro and noted that 20k challenge was done in a very transparent way where Alvaro was streaming all the time, shared complete hand histories and the 3rd party escrow respected 2p2 member evaluated Alvaro´s results as genuine. No concerns were noted by the 2p2 member verifying the results.

        5. No matter the outcome of this situation, you can be sure that SpinLegends will continue providing you with great coaching materials, personal support and staking. We are constantly working on new promotions, coaching materials and improved staking team experience.

      We have already made a statement about the whole situation on 2+2.

      Team SpinLegends


      Secondly, it is important to repeat that if the allegations against spin4play were true, it would have been an error on a personal level, not a company. SpinLegends have been always actively discouraging users from using any prohibited in-play support. If any SpinLegends user or coach used illegal software or cheated in any other way, it would be a major wrongdoing on their part and they would have to bear personal consequences.

      Thirdly, we have removed spin4play challenge from marketing materials of SpinLegends. We are not going to promote a player who is banned on PokerStars. There are numerous other successes of SpinLegends users, elite coaches and proven strategies of SpinLegends that we will continue promoting and advertising. SpinLegends never needed any unfair help to achieve successes of its members.

      At the moment there is no conclusive evidence that spin4play was cheating during the challenge. The OP in this thread posted a general PokerStars email explaining that spin4play is banned, but the PokerStars email does not provide any link to the challenge, neither does the PokerStars email provide any link to the 3rd party software. So can OP post real evidence that spin4play was using this software to back the allegations with data?

      SpinLegends is committed to fair play and game integrity and will continue carefully monitoring this situation.

      Kind regards
      SpinLegends Team
    • KTU
      KTU
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 24.01.2007 Posts: 6,510
      Please see below the public spinlyzer statement showing 13.1k games of spin4play challenge:



      You can see that the 0reg KPI is between 26% - 29% which looks genuine.
    • MRtito2
      MRtito2
      Basic
      Joined: 28.05.2013 Posts: 7
      Hello,
      According to my knowledge (additonal information is coming to light every hour since the thread has been started), Spin4Play's Pokerstars ban has been directly linked to his actions during the "challenge"


      Eight days after the above email exchange with pokerstars integrity team, Spin4Play has been banned with forfeiture of the funds and it's upcoming redistribution to his victims:



      Being able to use prohibited software that enables selecting and/or dodging certain tables and players has HUGE effect on someone's winrate - I've recieved information from one of the top 100s regulars from that period that he has compared his amount of games played vs Spin4Play and couple other good regs and it has been lower despite Alvaro's volume being a few times higher and timezone being the same.

      As to the Spinlyzer, as a service - it has been sketchy from the start and information provided there had been easily manipulated if someone was in contact with it's owner - which to my knowledge had been the case in Spin4Play's case.
      Secondly, during that time I do not recall spinlyzer losing track of the games above 15$, therefore, the 13k amount tracked that have been posted vs 20k played is quite improbable.
      Since the stats can be manipulated if you know the right people plus Reg ratio isn't fair. Reg=/=reg, if you are able to pick and choose weakest players that according to the website's algorithms were regs (afaik it was based mostly on volume and cev/game greater than 0 -> ZERO = losing at -5%ev ROI "regs")


      Have anyone been provided with Hand History from Spin4Play's challenge from Pokerstars download, 3rd party link? The person which volunteered prior the challenge has started, has been declined by Alvaro. How was the verification process performed? Another unknown.

      ------
      Thank you SvenBE for your statement as well as the post on 2+2 https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=53884955&postcount=9


      Does this mean that Spinlegends = Pokerstrategy? You, as a HEAD admin of Pokerstrategy have posted the same thing within few minutes on couple different boards, one on PS as Headadmin and one as Spinlegends rep on 2+2? If Spinlegends = Pokerstrategy, may I ask if Alvaro is still one of the main shareholders in the project?

      Best Regards,
      MRtito2
    • TeemTeem
      TeemTeem
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2010 Posts: 779
      Hi,
      As one of the top 100s players during the period bet was proposed, I've also thought that it is very unlikely for Spin4Play to be able to achieve his challenge and decided to give him some action.

      Therefore I am coming forward as another bettor, who had been cheated for the amount of 15000$.

      As such, I would like to get my hands on email conversation between Pokerstars and Spin4Play - if the reason for the ban isnt linked to prohibited table selection software - please come clean Alvaro. Secondly, I would like to receive all HandHistory from the bet to be able to review the frequency of Alvaro's facing various types of opponents at the tables plus as someone above suggested, chip dumping from friends/bought accounts to boost the EV.

      I understand that Pokerstrategy hasnt been directly linked to this fraud at the time it has happened, however, due to its connection (ownership?) of Spin Legends, which as a brand has benefited greatly from advertising and promotion based on a scam, I am counting on your help to retrieve amount I've been scammed for.

      When will other bettors come forward? Let's gather all the information we can and proceed as a united front in solving this "issue"

      Thanks,
      TeemTeem
    • Cornie4ever
      Cornie4ever
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 8,230
      Hi all –

      as some of you will know, my name is Pavel Stehno and I am COO of PokerStrategy.com.

      I want to be clear that as a company we value the integrity of our business partners. We have taken quick action to remove all references to spin4play and his challenge from the PokerStrategy.com website.

      I am coming here to address one matter. Some users are expressing their hopes on PokerStrategy.com helping them to pursue their claims against spin4play. This will not happen for two reasons:

      1. Personal matters you may have with spin4play should be taken up with spin4play.
      2. PokerStrategy.com is not in the business of resolving 3rd party disputes. We will not interfere. We did not know spin4play in the beginning of 2016. Since February 2017 PokerStrategy.com were advertising SpinLegends including spin4play challenge, but we have done so in a good faith that this was genuine. With the recent new information we have decided to immediately stop advertising any materials related to spin4play on PokerStrategy.com website.

      We understand that you might be looking for alternative ways to solve this situation, however, PokerStrategy will not be able to assist you for the reasons mentioned above. Thanks for your understanding.

      Good luck everyone with their genuine personal interests in this matter.
    • Antonioull
      Antonioull
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.09.2010 Posts: 726
      Pokerstrategy has decayed a lot in the recent years. This is just another nail in the coffin.

      Like all companies in decline and with no strategic vision they must hold on to something and i guess Alvaro either "bought" , financed or got some kind of agreement with PS .

      All the newbies in Poker must learn this . Everything can be manipulated - Graphs - 3rd party softw (spinlyzer or others ) - Bio´s.

      I am not surprised most newbs have no idea whats going on , im surprised experienced players fall in to this nonsense and take on bets without full direct acess to his DB , directly from the source . Wich is illegal...and would give his strategy , true. But all other option leaves a grey area....


      This player is not the first to scam in Spins , several others made the same.


      About the post saying the companie has nothing to do with the owner actions...i find it quite amusing

      Our company owner is pedophile but hey we never raped any children or encoraged that behaviour. Ok we believe you !!!


      The right thing to do , is suspend all activity when you have strong suspicion , investigate and then when a conclusion is made , decide.

      I think its important and morally vital for PS to clarify the relations with this guy , he has bought PS ? he pays you a monthly fee ?

      Do you win a % of profit from the horses ?

      Is PS also part of a scam ? Are you aware your reputation will go down the drain faster than water ?
    • MRtito2
      MRtito2
      Basic
      Joined: 28.05.2013 Posts: 7
      ***Breaking News***

      Hi,
      I'm coming forward with fresh information which is confirming my opening post.



      Moreover, over the last few days I've gathered more condeming evidence of Spin4Play's cheating during the challenge, for the time being I'll keep it private, due to the confirmation from Pokerstars Integrity Team.

      I hope it will open the eyes of some disbelievers

      Regards.
    • Vengeance166
      Vengeance166
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2012 Posts: 567
      Originally posted by Cornie4ever

      I want to be clear that as a company we value the integrity of our business partners. We have taken quick action to remove all references to spin4play and his challenge from the PokerStrategy.com website.


      2. PokerStrategy.com is not in the business of resolving 3rd party disputes. We will not interfere. We did not know spin4play in the beginning of 2016. Since February 2017 PokerStrategy.com were advertising SpinLegends including spin4play challenge, but we have done so in a good faith that this was genuine. With the recent new information we have decided to immediately stop advertising any materials related to spin4play on PokerStrategy.com website.

      I don't get it, at the moment do PS only advertise SpinLegends, or do PS have a stake/own it? If you only advertise it, after it turned out its founder is a massive scammer, shouldn't you just end all ties with SL? The only way this could make any sense is if spin4play no longer has any ownership/do any coaching or have any involvement with the stable he founded SpinLegends, is that the case?

      Or you don't care what your partners did in the past, scams, thefts, that's just private stuff, if they don't do it anymore all's good?

      What's next, Akis_333 coaching for pokerstrategy?
    • BadHabit1989
      BadHabit1989
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2016 Posts: 780
      even SpinLegends went on distance to alvaro now.
      what a nightmare
    • MRtito2
      MRtito2
      Basic
      Joined: 28.05.2013 Posts: 7
      Hello,

      Dear Pokerstrategy, I feel that we need to revisit your future engagement in this case. Saying that you are washing your hands from this issue and it is a personal act of one individual, cannot be a serious approach for someone in your position in poker community for many years.
      Alvaro Romero is still benefiting from your cooperation, as well as you are benefiting from cooperation with Alvaro and advertisement of his scam. Can you hold all current, and upcoming payments to Alvaro, to cover his debt?
      Can we expect a statement from the owner of Spinlegends explaining his behaviour and how is he going to repay stolen funds? I find it hard to believe that you aren't in contact with your biggest business partner.


      ------------
      To everyone affected by Spin4Play's scam => Send an email to spin4playfraud@gmail.com with amount you have been cheated for and some contact information (f.e skype).
      We need to establish united front as bettors and find the best approach moving forward.
      There are some steps we need to agree upon. For example maybe we could find someone willing to buy this debt and execute it's collection on his own.

      Regards.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Silver
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,735
      if he managed to hack DB of pokerstars, then he was probably having some insider in pokerstars who allowed him to do that, because you can't simply find a software that does it. Pokerstars likely found out already what is going on, but they don't want to make a public scandal it is bad for the business. I assume that Alvaro just broke Terms and conditions of pokerstars by using illegal software, he likely didn't break any international law, so i don't see how you can get the money back from him unless he decides himself to do that. I think that in fact pokerstars should pay because they are responsible for having unsecure system. If you play online poker you have to calculate in your EV that you might be cheated very often without ever knowing about it. It still just matters if you can make money or not.
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