hard to believe in "random number generator"

    • dnalloh
      Joined: 20.02.2009 Posts: 53
      i certainly dont expect agreement here, but it is just incredibly hard for me to right now believe that the rng's out there dont recognize betting patterns and start giving good stuff to the wilder players. here is my story for today.

      i tilted. strait up i got sick of 3 tabling for hours at a time and taking 2 steps forward and 3-5 steps back. i mean, i get my AK to hit v 88, but the dude is playing ultra short stacked and i get nothing out of it. then hit my set of 5s against big stacked player, and he hits runner runner 4 to flush with his AJo and i lose more than i won. play top pr top kicker v openender and he hits on river, play my own openender v only 2 over cards and absolutely nothing hits. i know you need to be patient, and as i have written before, i have played and won before, but just cannot get anything going. anyway...

      i have also realized that i get stressed chasing the damn bonus and just decided that, screw it! i really like pokerstrategy and dont want to let them down, but i am sick of this slow dance into the nether regions of poker hell with my bankroll. so i play 2 5dollar sng and a 10 dollar one (of course get sucked out while trying to play "real" poker in all of them) and have 4 bucks left. put it on one .1/.2 sh table and go all in a few times and finally get called with TJo v AKo (hit T on flop, he hits K on turn which gives him also flush draw, i hit J on river - double up nr 1). move to another .1/.2 table, first hand on bb i get KK and first to act raises i push of course - at this point as you can prob guess a big part of me wants to lose and get it over with - he calls with 99 (and humorously enuff claims to have "pushed wrong button" - yeah right, but whatever - double up nr 2 after KK holds). now up to 17 or so. put it all on .25/.50 sh table. push with a few including A8o on button, next hand get AKdiamonds and push again - get called by the rockets, flop all diamonds and when board doesnt pair hes drawing dead on the already on the turn (double up nr 3).

      so i play good solid poker for hours and hours and get nothing to show for it except a beginning ulcer. say fuck it and start playing total donk poker and go from 4 to 37 in less than 30 min. i know that it wont work forever, but i am telling you, I KNEW I WAS GOING TO WIN THESE HANDS! just like i know when i am going to get crushed by donks when they play against me when i am trying to play "real" poker. i mean, i have played AKs so many times and never come close to hitting the flop the last few weeks, certainly not getting paid with it if i did hit, but go fucktard donk crazy and all of a sudden i am outflopping and donking on pocket aces and hitting miracle rivers and all that good stuff.

      sigh... again, i know i am not going to get anyone to say "its not random, you're right". and i dont even know if i believe that. but right now it is DAMN hard to not believe that the program picks up on betting patterns to "juice" the action and help the crazies. i mean, i wasnt pushing with J5o or anything like that, and i got of course several folds that if someone had called they wouldve prob cleaned me out (like i was looking for, especially early in the donkfest), so i was still pushing hands that at least were "decent" drawing hands and not just "any two", and of course monsters. and of course, i couldve gotten called just one time with the 79o by KJs and got crushed and that wouldve been the end of that. but the hands that DID play were all miracle after miracle.

      i seriously dont know how to feel about this. play well and get creamed - donk it up and go mega plus. i know it isnt maintainable, but i just cant wrap my head around it anyway.

      bottom line is that i ended today at plus 10 on the bankroll. despite playing over 30 bucks in sng's and not cashing any of them and getting stacked 3x on .05/.10 tables playing "quasi" sss (sitting with exactly 2 just feels strange, so i usually sit with a few extra pennies).

      comments are of course welcomed, but i know myself that i am not being rational, so please dont cream me for being an idiot. i tilted, got lucky, and have a bankroll to play another day with when i prob shouldnt have. i know this and have to live with it. but feelings are feelings and they are based on experience, and right now my experience from the last several weeks tells me that playing good poker gets punished and playing like a donk gets rewarded. i need to take a serious break now before that thinking dominates me, i guess.

      rant over. thank you, pokerstrategy! i really do want to be a member the entire site can be proud of. i hope to get out of my funk soon so that that can be the case. right now i feel like a big joke.
  • 71 replies
    • timukasr
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      I only read the tiltle, but will still answer this thread.

      "variance, random, downswing, psychology, cooler, lack of skill, VPIP, tilt, BRM, over play, [ ] folding skills"

      Hope it helped.
    • NightFrostaSS
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      its not random, you're right.
    • Maniatrix
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 670
      Start cold calling with 72 offsuit against a tight player, you'll be amased how rewarding it is mentally when you hit. Tight player has AA, flop comes T72, he bet you overbet raise all in and he calls.

      If your theory is correct, playing 72 off should prove to become very profitable. Hell, why not just open shove any two cards from any position, preferably really deep stacked.

      Anyways, this was actually just an example from a home game where we copied the "7-2" game from high stakes poker. I had 72, cold called a raise from a preflop nit who never c-bets when no hit and can't let go of overpairs postflop. It was +ev there of course as you won 2bb from each player when winning with 72 off.
    • 8979687
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      What you should do, especially in the SNGs, is look up the players you see playing rags and
      playing like donkeys and sucking out on Sharkscope or Poker Pro Labs.

      Just write down the names, and when the game is done, look them up and you will ALWAYS
      find that they are big time losing players. If they are ahead, it is because they have a small sample size,

      Or they got lucky in a higher buy in.

      I do not know of anything to keep track of the winnings of players in cash games,
      but by looking up these donkeys that play by your theory of playing like a donkey,
      and playing bad hands etc etc in SNGs, you will have it proven to you that it does not work.

      It just seems that they are ahead by playing these cards because it is a different donkey
      sucking out on you each time, and this makes it feel like you are playing wrong.

      But these donkeys each are getting lucky on you this once, and unlucky on MOST of their
      poker hands over their carreer.

      Be steadfast and play solid poker and collect in the long run.
    • swissmoumout
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
    • alland
      Joined: 24.11.2007 Posts: 174
      its not completely random, but it is pseudo random
    • themagpiespg
      Joined: 23.02.2009 Posts: 280
      Hi it does seam that its not random its been happening to me all weekend playing nl10 I get AA, KK or AK raises get re-raised so go all in and I'm up against 56s or some other very marginal hand and the villain draw out on usually on the river.

      It sucks but in the long run it should work out.

      All in all the SSS has work very well for me so far just this weekend my bank roll has taken a hit dropped from $88 to $71 It's sick but it happens.

      Just Thought I'd add this

      I was play today (9/3/09) on fl10 and played using the hand charts for FL and had pocket A's first hand I had played, hit an A on flop raise got re raise and end up in a betting war with this guy so ended up with all my chips in the pot with just the river to come our card where turned over and all he had was 7 :club: 3 :club: he'd hit nothing on the flop and a flush draw on turn he hit the flush on river. He played every hand the same and sucked out on 4 other player with big hand when he had crap and hit on turn & river. But when he left the table he had lost most of his stack.

      So my point is Keep hitting these guys and betting as much as you can when you have your big hands they may get lucky but in the end they lose it all. I finished session $6 up he nearly went lost it all.
    • Hlynkinn
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
    • alejandrosh
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      in theory it's impossible to be 100% random

      but I really doubt it makes a decent diference or wild players get rewarded by it. and better than live games in its randomness.
    • andyb43
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by dnalloh

      so i play good solid poker for hours and hours

      Maybe not>>>>>? :D
    • Kimber88
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      I believe there's no such thing as a real RNG. But what the poker sites have are probably the closest you get.

      They certainly don't rig it based on betting patterns. Come on man, why would they?

      But if you're playing on Titan you might be right. That site is actually rigged.

    • Dragar
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by dnalloh
      i certainly dont expect agreement here, but it is just incredibly hard for me to right now believe that the rng's out there dont recognize betting patterns and start giving good stuff to the wilder players. here is my story for today.
      Stopped reading right there.

      You don't have my agreement, as you already pointed out.
    • Haupy
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 7
      lol.. titan rigged? good joke
      I believe everything is just in our mental avearance (hope it means the smae in english as in our language). Our mind is designed i nthe way that we win several hands together we dont start svearing and going on tilt, we more or less take it as taken, they way it should be. Opposite is when the several badbeats happen/ or opponents suckout on us. Then our mind dont take it as well. So we also more than less remember far more bad beats and only several best hands we won!
      Besides i doubt poker sites would jeopardize everything they have, jsut to have some "not random hand generators" - can u imagien how many players would left them?
    • Alucard23
      Joined: 05.05.2008 Posts: 29
      I read ur thread and all i can say its bankroll management. if u started to play 2 dollars limit with ur 50 bugs its all wrong. u should read some articles about bankroll management and than start to play poker. With BM u wouldnt be down to 4 bugs... thats all i have to say...
    • Ray3zor
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 9
      I've had similar experiences on Mansion and other iPoker sites. You play good, solid, tight/aggressive poker and you find yourself the victim of bad beat after bad beat.

      It's not much consolation when you see a donk walk away with your chips, but if you put your money in with the better cards you are playing good poker. You've got no control what comes up on the flop, turn and river.

      All you can do is put your chips/money in while you're ahead - and it looks as though that's what you're doing.

      As to whether the random generator is really that random, well.... the jury is still very much out when it comes to Mansion and iPoker.

      I have had a lot less success on their sites than I have had on other sites, but I've been playing the same type of game everywhere.

      There's not much you can do other than start to play your solid poker elsewhere - it should pay off when you find the right place.

    • PidKoker
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 416
      People seem to focus on monitary values too much IMO, poker isn't some sort of get rich quick scheem. At time it may seem like it but you don't get very far by playing without some sort of strategy. Even though luck is part of the game you can't just shove and pray to get lucky (like some low level donkies do)... you must apply proper BRM, be able to live with bad beats and not get frustrated when players make such stupid plays at low levels. If you can't focus when you shove all in for $2 and lose how can you control yourself when you shove for like $20 or $40 and lose to a bad beat or lose a flip or something like that?
    • kingdippy2008
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      i get bored of these posts. If u dont believe in them then dont play poker, simple.
      If they were not random then how come many people can make lots of money against the stupid donk fish?
      @themagpiespg:5 stacks is nothing playing SSS. And also AA vs 56s is 80/20. You will lose 2/10 times.
    • suvalgysiu
      Joined: 09.06.2007 Posts: 307
      Actually if internet poker is rigged it's even better:

      1) your account is rigged in the same way as others, so there's complete fairness
      2) guarantee that in the long run your AA will win vs KK 80% & etc.
      3) if there are patterns, hey, why not take advantage of that?
    • soulandbone
      Joined: 07.12.2008 Posts: 1,510
      Those platforms are usually certified by external consultants who make some statistics test to see if they're actually random or if there is some pattern or "rigging" going on

      There is a specific array of tests to certify that!