Bluffing impossible at low limits?

    • wowadvisor
      wowadvisor
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 741
      Hi,
      If I raise with AKo preflop and i hit nothing i have trash right?

      Well the articles say i should still bet if nobody else does to make the opponent fold. But i have "bluffed" like this like 50 times and not once have they folded my bet.

      Will i stop bluffing or is it just because its low stakes?
  • 11 replies
    • saywhat
      saywhat
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.11.2008 Posts: 253
      Bluffing is not just throwing your money in when u have no chance of winning in the hopes that u will get your opponent to fold. You should be aware if your opponent is capable of folding, if the board will give your opponent the idea that you did hit something, and you have not tried bluffing lots before in the session. Bluffing should be part of your game at all levels, but used at the right times, that's when it becomes profitable.

      Chose your spots carefully, and good luck
    • slikec
      slikec
      Global
      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      Depends man what tzpe of game is NL o FL but mostly how many players in pot and what kinda players in pot and what is texture of flop. I conti bet heads up a lot if there are 3 players usually not if 4 or more i dont see point betting since there will one call or even worse reraise. There is not global rule i suggest you watch few movies they explain that good in almost every bronze/silver movie at least in NL movies.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      I don't consider c-bets being bluffs. Well, don't c-bet calling stations, don't c-bet multyway (3 and more villains) pots and you'll turn profit out of it. If you won't c-bet you will hardly win in the long run. 1) every time you continue betting on flop will mean that you have a hand and even dumbest players will notice it. 2) you won't take many pots that you could take by using out the fact that you were the preflop aggressor and caller fears you.
    • wowadvisor
      wowadvisor
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 741
      ok thanks all for the comments, im talking about fixed limit :)

      i will bluff less and try to only bluff against tight players i guess :)

      i had AKo and on the flop was 9h, Jd, 2d

      i hit nothing so i have trash :( i didnt want to throw away AKo so i tried 1 bet see if they would fold.. but they didnt so i check folded after that. i hope i did the right thing
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by wowadvisor
      Well the articles say i should still bet if nobody else does to make the opponent fold. But i have "bluffed" like this like 50 times and not once have they folded my bet.
      If you play against loose passive players you're not bluffing if you make a cbet with AK. The articles say you should cbet heads-up and in 3-way pots. (Personally I cbet AK even 4-way).
      If you are against 2 passive fish you will often have the best hand, even with Ace-High. It happened to me many times(especially in heads-up or 3-way), the fish calls my flop bet, then I double barrel, he calls, I check behind the river and I win with Ace-high. :)
    • wowadvisor
      wowadvisor
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 741
      well im a beginner and your post makes almost no sense to me with double barrell and what not :P but thanks anyway for your post :P

      im winning overall on fixed limit, even though im silver status i have not yet read any silver articles. I wanted to get used to the charts of the bronze articles first as i found out that there are a lot more charts in the silver section :)

      i didnt get silver status on fixed limit. i got it by playing no limit but i needed a change and it was impossible for me to win with shortstack strategy on mansionpoker so now im playing fixed limit and its going REALLY WELL.

      I was just wondering how the bluffing could work profitably and that not every limper just calls my bluff everytime lol :P
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Hi wowadvisor

      The important thing is to understand why you are c-betting.

      You have to c-bet with initiative on every flop HU or 3 way. If you just check/fold every flop you miss you will lose value over time.

      Remember HU you only need the c-bet to work 1 in 3 times to be EV+. This still applies even at micro limits. If you fail to c-bet the flop you will be a candidate to be bluffed out of every flop you miss, and lose value by giving free cards to draws where the villian doesn't have the odds to call a flop bet.

      Four way you can check/fold if you miss the flop because the chances of getting enough players to fold is too low. I would follow this rule even with AKo.

      How you play on the turn or react to having your c-bet raised is where your decisions will gain or lose you value long term. If you haven't already I suggest reading this article on overcards to help with playing cards like AK post flop.

      Also, post hands where you are unsure how you should play after your c-bet to identify any too loose / too tight play that may be costing you value.

      Hope this helps. :)
    • wowadvisor
      wowadvisor
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 741
      i am posting many hands, and watching the videos and reading and rereading articles :)

      im understanding everything more everyday :) today im up 9.8 dollars on 0.1/0.2 limits :) fixed limit so not bad!!! :D

      but yesterday i lost 5 so lol

      what i do at the moment when i raise preflop with for example AJo or AKo or AQo...

      when i hit nothing on the flop, i still bet and when im raised i fold.

      if im called i will try and bet again if the table looks bad .. if i have stats on the player i also check if he is loose or tight and then either check fold or bet again to make him fold...

      i just hopes it works in the long run for this to be profitable :)
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by wowadvisor
      well im a beginner and your post makes almost no sense to me with double barrell and what not :P but thanks anyway for your post :P
      I was trying to say you that AK is not trash even if it misses the flop. Against 1 or 2 opponents there is a chance you have the best hand. If not, you still have 2 overcards(+possible draws or backdoor draws). You have some fold equity even against loose players(this is FL, not NL, your opponent doesn't have to fold a big percent of the time to show a profit). If it's a 3-way pot sometimes both opponents will fold and sometimes only one of them will fold. If you make 1 of your 2 opponents to fold with a cbet this is a good thing because your winning chances will improve(your Ace-high has better chances to resist against only one opponent). If I'm on the button I cbet even against a larger field because if some of them fold I will have better chances to win if I hit an Ace or King.
    • wowadvisor
      wowadvisor
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 741
      thank you for that post.. that was very interesting to read and you are right! sometimes AK will win even if it didnt hit.. if im playing against loose players
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      In FL, the cbet, even when you miss with something like AK, does many things. It protects you hand if it's the best, bottom pairs or underpairs might fold, you gain some information about your opponents from the way they react, and it leaves your opponents guessing. It's your bread and butter - keep playing and learning the game and you'll be able to benefit more from a standard action like the cbet.