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1,5$ | FR | T | pre/post| T8s

    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,348
      hi,

      bu and sb tight fish, BB is a multitabler who folds too much. I cbet this dry board and get a call. On this turn I switched to pot control and on the river I thougt I can get thin value from a pocket. I expected him to bet turn if he had the ten or a queen.

      Poker Stars, $1.32 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: 4,561 (22.8 bb)
      BB: 2,558 (12.8 bb)
      Hero (CO): 2,992 (15 bb)
      BTN: 3,389 (16.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with :8c: :Tc:
      Hero raises to 400, 2 folds, BB calls 200

      Flop: (1,000) :5h: :4s: :Td: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 550, BB calls 550

      Turn: (2,100) :Qs: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      River: (2,100) :Qh: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 250, BB calls 250

      greets

      maniac
  • 5 replies
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 39,230
      I think you played it fine here. Only the river I would consider shoving for thin value, but otherwise I would just check back.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,348
      is my estimation of the discounted range correct? Do you think that he should have bet the turn and is probably on a pocket?

      greets

      maniac
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,222
      Pretty questionable open raise but if they are tight enough probably fine.

      Sensible villain never has pocket pairs here outside of some KK+ as traps as pockets should shove. He could have few Ax, some 57s, 67s type, decent amount of Tx after flop call. Maybe he raises some straight draws or Tx.

      In flop you really want to think what do you do versus shove if you cbet and its sort of tricky spot. So I wouldn't mind checking probably weakest Tx you can have. If cbetting I would prefer like 300-400 size. This is dry flop overall.

      Turn is good and river is close. If you think villain will likely play fast with like JT+ then value bet is mandatory but would probably shove. Usually I personally want to make sizings that would be balanced and I would never bet 250 as bluff. Not saying it's necessarily bad as exploitative line. But if going for small bet I think 600 would make more sense.

      But checking is totally fine in river as well. I think more important streets are preflop and flop.
    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,348
      didn´t you encourage me to open wider to print money? ;) This one has a nice playability and most of the time live cards if called. I think you probably meant BU spots right? Do you always tent to cbet less than half of the pot on dry board due to the stacksizes? Can you explain to me If I want to value bet river because of discounting JT+ a shove is mandatory? Normally I would play balanced lines but on these stakes, the amount of fish is this high and the reg or multitabler are this bad you loose to much value. Most regs play bad postflop and call to tight because or shove to loose because they have not a good feeling for the nash ranges at all.


      thanks and greets


      maniac
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,222
      Problem for opening is that everyone has nice stacks to 3bet shove. How common that is in these games I have no idea. But e.g. in BU shoes I would often 3bet shove hands like Axs(maybe not quite all), AJo+, 22+, KTs+, KQo, QJs unless tight reads on hero. Wider versus some.

      Also T8s has close to no blockers to shoving ranges. Plus value of these hands drops smaller the stacks are because implied odds decreases when we happen to hit strong. If we were like 20bb+ this would be standard open.

      But as said I don't think this is unreasonable e.g. with tight player on BU and fishy player on BB.

      Yeah on dry flops it make sense to size cbet smaller as villain is less likely to hit and your hands need less protection. Some other reasons as well but those are main ideas.

      If villain raises good Tx or better on flop and value bets random Qx on river then he just really rarely has you beat. So at that point if he just hero calls couple of e.g. 5x or weaker Tx then he will have more combos that you beat. But of course in high ICM spots like this you want to avoid really marginal value bets as chips won are less valuable than those lost.

      If on other hand villain has hands like KT in river check range then value bet is more likely to be too thin. Or if you think villain calls tight preflop and won't have 5x or T6s, T7s then he likely won't have enough weaker hands that could call anyway.

      There are lot of spots in poker where you can estimate often to be ahead in river but that alone won't mean value bet is sensible. You also need to beat range that villain is calling your value bet :)