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[NL2-NL10] Tt Nl5

    • Sonydahaka
      Sonydahaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.06.2008 Posts: 392
      $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem
      3 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      BTN ($9.33)
      Hero (SB) ($7.66)
      BB ($10.05)

      Pre-flop: ($0.07, 3 players) Hero is SB T:heart: T:club:
      BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

      Flop: 4:spade: 2:spade: J:club: ($1.20, 2 players)
      Hero bets $0.90, BB raises to $2.90, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $3

      BB wins $4.90 ( won +$1.40 )
      Hero lost -$1.50

      Is it ok to bet the flop in this situation? Opponent is kind of Tag.
  • 8 replies
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      Definitely ok to bet flop, theres good chance he was trying to defend his blinds

      nh
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Nice hand, well played.
    • CingCoCo
      CingCoCo
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2007 Posts: 2,435
      Sry guys just took a look over here cause I was curious whats going on in the english forums and saw this hand.
      I gotta say I dont like that donkbet. Not a bit!
      I mean whats your point in doing this?
      You say villains is kinda TAGish so hes propably thinking as well.
      Now if you were sitting there in a 3bet pot and be confronted with that kinda donkbet on a J high flop - whatd you think about your opponents hand?
      You can rule out AA and KK since HERO would have shipped that pre (since hes a TAG as well, as I asume).
      So the only overpair left is QQ - but why would you donk that if you can be close to 100% certain of a cbet?
      So what else is out there? AJ? Realy unpropable HERO would have called that hand pre.
      JJ? Same argument as QQ - PLUS the pot ist already THAT big so HERO can easily risk a cb by villain and still get it all in on the river - even though if villain doesnt cbet that board hed most likely fold to any action on the turn anyways (except an A or K hits which improves villains most likely holding, AK).
      So whats left? Underpairs and pure bluffs and - again assumpting villain is reasonable, TAG and thinking - he surely know that. Therefore hed bluff any 2 cards in this spot. We have a marginal holding with little SD value.
      Now lets talk about villains range. Lets say he 3bets AQ, AK, TT+ in this spot and maybe some SC and smaller PP. Why wouldnt he 3bet AJ, AT and KQ? Well because hed have to fear that he isolates himself against a stronger range if HERO calls his 3bet - therefore its most likely hed defend those hands passively (which is standard play even on mid and high stakes - even at SH tables).
      Now lets start to count: AQ and AK got about 27% EQ left with that flop and there are 32 combinations for those hands.
      TT gut 1 left and wed split. JJ has 3. QQ, KK and AA got 6 each.
      This means we split against 1 of his holdings, lose to 9 and win against 32.
      But hed turn 100% of his holdings into bluffs against our range and wed have to fold.
      Now tell me again why donkbet/fold is a good line here.

      Edit:

      And I didnt even start to talk about balancing this line with other holdings - even though that propably aint that important on NL5.
    • Sonydahaka
      Sonydahaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.06.2008 Posts: 392
      I think that players a this level don't think so far, so in most of the times when you are confronted with a raise after a bet in a multyway pot, you are behind with just second pair. I bet on this flop because i wanted to know where i was standing.
      Villain had in this situation a set of 66.
    • CingCoCo
      CingCoCo
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2007 Posts: 2,435
      Sixes wont make a set here.
      Just ask yourself in general: What do you do in spots where you are confronted with a donkbet on 2 low 1 high card boards.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      You raise!
    • Sonydahaka
      Sonydahaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.06.2008 Posts: 392
      Ups sorry!!! a set of 44
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Because balancin isn't important on such a limit and players are just bad in general I think donking is ok because it makes it easy to play the hand. If you c/c you don't know what to do on the turn and river and it's hard to play. nh!
      c/f is the other option btw.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar