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Analyzing my bubble play - help to improve

    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 579
      Hi, i'm creating this thread because i need help to analyze my bubble play. I play 0,5€ 6max and i notice that i'm losing -1.99bb/100 on bubble, and i need help to analyze my stats (if i'm playing too tight or if i'm cbetting too much....). From your experience what filters can i use to analyze this part of the game and what are the most common mistakes that players do in this spots. One of my problems is that i'm folding too much on SB and BB and i'm having difficulties creating calling ranges but i don't know where i can find some articles or videos that explain this.

      stats bubble

      Cumps ;)
  • 13 replies
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,284
      Positional report would be better. If you want only direct bubble spots filter to 3handed.

      Do you have any sort of ICM tool in use? Like HRC, ICMizer? If not there is free tool in HRC home page that allows to check nash ranges. Those are ok starting point.

      I would assume pool leaks to be too passive play in micro games. Likely too wide calling ranges in ICM heavy spots and on other hand often too tight calls in spots where they should call wide.

      As you play in stars you can also see EV data in PT4. That is better to use than BB/100 as plays that make chips are not necessarily profitable because of ICM.
    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 579
      Thank you for your reply ;) I normally use sng wizard or icmizer trial version but i'm thinking to begin with hcr (try the trial and probably buy after that) to try to work on my ranges, especially on calling range and 3bet ranges.

      Thats stats that i already put are just from 3handed situations. The EV data that you talk about it isn't the All-in Adj BB/100?

      I left here my stats by position and i appreciate if you can give me your opinion about it and some tips here i can look to improve. I already begin to analize it by looking for big pots and i plan to post some hands that i'm having some doubts

      stats by position

      Cumps ;)
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,284
      From those I would say at least that you under defend your blinds. There is likely space to widen 3bets from SB and calls from BB versus small opens.

      Would be nice to have raise first or steal stats to see how much you open raise from SB. BU pfr seems small also.

      All-in adj. takes cEV into account but no ICM. $EV is visible at least in graphs.
    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 579
      Ok there is something that i have to work on my calling range and i also feel when playing that i just get tight and start to lose my stack with blinds. Normally i'm playing against loose players so i sometimes don't raise some of the worst hands because i know i will be called. I start to think i can sometimes limp some of the bottom hands of the range against loose passive players when i'm on sb this makes any sense?

      Here is the stats with opr from sb pfr sb

      Cumps ;)
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,284
      Yeah limping SB is good tactic in general. How well balanced you want to be with that range depends on BB villain. Versus reggy or more aggressive players you want to have some traps as raising light versus the limp will otherwise quickly become very profitable.

      On other hand if BB is folding a lot to small raise then it will likely be better to raise most of time.

      But yeah being on passive side is not good idea usually in bubble situations overall. Of course sometimes there are players who just wont care about ICM so have to be more careful. But most of time aggression will show lot of profit. But depends lot of stack setups.
    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 579
      How can i build my ranges and what factors i have to consider to creat it? For example what hands i should raise from sb against a loose passive player and what hands i limp. I open from sb around 47% and i feel that sometimes i'm called wide from sb i have to fold most of flops when he bets.

      Cumps ;)
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,284
      Well versus passive ones you can go with more honest line where you raise strong hands for value and limp weaker ones. It can work well as they are less likely to raise wide versus limp yet still give action to raises.

      Now of course in bubble especially it's often not that deep stacked. So e.g. 15bb deep you probably want to open shove hands like 22-88 and good amount of Ax as postflop playability with those is often problematic but they are most of time +EV shoves. But then some KJ, QJ, JT, 78s might make sense to raise small or limp as you are not facing shove often. But versus more aggro you might want to shove those often as then folding them would be sort of disaster.

      It's hard to define exact ranges as it's so dependent of exact situation in bubble. Like villain type, effective stack depth and stack setup. E.g. is BU 2bb, 10bb or 30bb deep makes it totally different spot even if blinds both have 15bb.

      But in general you want to ask certain questions:
      - is shove +EV?
      - do you want to see flop with your hand?
      - is your hand too good to raise-fold or limp-fold?
      -how likely are facing raise/3bet that you cannot continue against?

      At least few good questions. So if you have hand that is +EV to shove and you don't want to see flop then shove is likely clear answer. But if you have hand that is not profitable shove but has good postflop playability then small raise or limp is perhaps option.

      Then there are often hands that are on gray area like some JTs that seeing flop would be totally fine but having tonfoldnit preflop would be disaster. Then all options might be reasonable but perhaps shove or limp more often preferable.
    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,462
      first of all at the bubble you will bust most of the time if you dont finish itm. I mean its your most bust out place when not finishing itm. Most players are so bad at these stakes, that you end up with your card dead tourneys in shoving maginal spots at the bubble. I dont like that either because its damn close to itm, but thats the way it is. That doesnt nessiarily mean you cant play the bubble correctly. Nevertheless playing correct bubbles ist crucial for success because as a cl or close to the cl you can set yourself up to win the tourney.

      For starters try to calclulate bubbles in the hrc or the web tool and compare average stacks with each other. Than 2 average stacks with 1 bigstack, than 1 average stack, a big stack and a shorty.

      Try every combination by yourself and think about the changes of the ranges. The important factor to notice is the risk premium at the bubble. If you know all that stuff for 6 max you can go ahead and assume that winning players will play as recommended by nash. If so you can abuse that and shove more or less than the nash range.

      For example if you are a average stack in the SB and BB is a tight player or a reg you can almost shove any2 f there is a shorty on the table. He cant call anything because its more likely that the shorty will bust first.

      Vice Verca if the BB player is a fish who call way to much in the BB in this spot you have to shove much tighter.

      You will see that there are a lots of spots you have to figure out first and adept accordingly against different types of players to make correct decisions.
      This is where your edge comes from and this is why I really love playing bubbles. Even if there end up badly sometimes.

      Greets

      maniac
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 6,284
      Nice post from maniac above. You really need to go through those shove/call spots often as they are basically foundation of sng games. Situation that occur every game and where most money moves.

      If you know all that stuff for 6 max you can go ahead and assume that winning players will play as recommended by nash. If so you can abuse that and shove more or less than the nash range.
      That is basically wrong as you cant really abuse reg calling nash range by shoving more or less than nash assume. If you shove tighter opponent will profit from getting more walks than he should (and lose bit when calling) and if you shove wider then he will make profit from his calls (and lose bit from not getting his walks).

      But if we know villain shoving or calling does not play nash then we can make adjustment to exploit that:

      -calls tighter ---> shove wider
      -calls wider ---> shove tighter
      - shove wider ---> call wider
      -shove tighter ---> call tighter

      We rarely know exactly how opponent shoves. Well possibly outside good reg shoving any2 spot. But often we can make assumptions from villain earlier play or player pool tendencies.

      That is also good to follow. E.g. let's say that reg shoves versus us on bubble from SB in spot where Nash range is roughly 60%. We call and villain shows up with 74o. We should note at this point that ok that hand is definitely not in Nash range and villain shoved versus us. Maybe he assumes we call too tight or he is just too aggro? Our adjustment in optimal world would be to make note (if possible) and call bit wider than nash in future.

      Now important point is to note if villain shows up with weaker hand versus you or someone else. Because in some spot it might be good adjustment to shove way wider versus tight or recreational player so villain might not shove as wide versus you in similar spot.
    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,462
      ghaleon is right. Sry my english has leaks. What I want to say is vs reg you play nash of course. But you "use" not "abuse" your knowlege of these spots to precieve their play how it should be. And thats the nash range. If they deviarte from the range vs you they are playing -ev. There are some spots where its ok, but for starters its fine. ( -ev shoves to prolong your fold equity or other future game aspekts). On the bubble for example if you look at my mentioned any spot, they have to call extremly tight due to the short stack. You want that because of the chips of course. You can use the nash range as a indicator for a loose shove ( which is recommended) to get more chips. Its like playing it right by playing as recommended. I hope thats the right phrasing. Nash is never a argument also but a lottery of the reminaing chips without skill perspektives and future game aspekts.

      greets

      maniac
    • maniac
      maniac
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 7,462
      Originally posted by ghaleon

      -calls tighter ---> shove wider
      -calls wider ---> shove tighter
      - shove wider ---> call wider
      -shove tighter ---> call tighter

      .
      basically: "If you think about an opponent call. Shove the opposite. If you thinking about an opponent shove. Call the same."

      maybe this help a little. Is this gammatically correct? Just saw you list and thought its possible to say this short to prevent errors.

      greets

      maniac
    • Mayb3n0T
      Mayb3n0T
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2017 Posts: 579
      Indeed i have some difficulties on calling ranges, i feel very difficult to adapt to the other players mostly because i have almost any data about him.

      Thank you for your replies :) i already begun to study this push/fold situation and chaging stacks, blinds and positions to see how afects the ranges because i probably just calling tight. I'm reviewing some hands from 3 handed and already post a few on the forum. And try to work on a calling range on bb and sb and try to improve by posting some more hands

      Cumps ;)
    • sprozi
      sprozi
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2017 Posts: 6
      :f_drink: ...xdrink a beer and give up to play poker ......the world is not big enough for you and me in these poker ....paradise...i think you play better Kinpin ...bowling good night gringo