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[NL2] How to play second nut flush?

    • Bernasconi
      Bernasconi
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2006 Posts: 486
      Prefop
      Chaotic preflop play with many limpers. I decide to complete from the SB because I get pretty good odds and I play for the flush or two pair+ only.

      Flop
      Flop gives me a flush draw with the king already on the board. I bet to get money in the pot and to make sure that there is no bigger bet than I can afford drawing to.

      Turn
      Flush completes with an Ace on the board which gives me the second nut flush. Many action and I do not know how I should play. In my opinion the all-in will come on the river if I do not go all-in on the turn here. So basically I have to decide between folding and pushing all-in. As you can see I did the later.

      Toughts
      What do I hope to beat? AK, QQ, K7, worse flushes than mine. What do I fear: Nut flush, fullhouse with 77 or AA.

      Question
      Of course I lost a >300 BB pot which is really sad, but the question remains: Bad beat or did I completely misplay my second nut flush? This is actually the second time I loose a big pot against the nut flush with my second nut flush.

      Thank you for any comments.

      888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 133.5 BB (VPIP: 28.89, PFR: 8.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
      UTG+1: 179.5 BB (VPIP: 46.67, PFR: 2.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
      MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.33, PFR: 20.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 104)
      MP+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.06, PFR: 14.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.04, Hands: 357)
      CO: 230 BB (VPIP: 62.22, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 45)
      BTN: 103.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 60)
      Hero (SB): 111 BB
      BB: 62.5 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 7.00, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 401)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, MP posts penalty blind 1.5 BB, MP+1 posts penalty blind 1.5 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 4.5 BB) Hero has 6:spade: J:spade:

      fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, MP checks, MP+1 checks, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

      Flop: (7 BB, 6 players) K:spade: 7:spade: K:club:
      Hero bets 3 BB, fold, UTG+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB

      Turn: (16 BB, 3 players) A:spade:
      Hero bets 7.5 BB, UTG+1 raises to 38 BB, BTN calls 38 BB, Hero raises to 107 BB and is all-in, UTG+1 raises to 175.5 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 61.5 BB and is all-in

      River: (329.5 BB, 3 players) 2:club:

      UTG+1 shows J:diamond: K:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Kings)

      Main Pot [314.5 BB]: (Pre 51%, Flop 77%, Turn 21%)
      Side Pot#1 [15 BB]: (Pre 74%, Flop 77%, Turn 21%)

      BTN shows 9:spade: Q:spade: (Flush, Ace High)

      Main Pot [314.5 BB]: (Pre 35%, Flop 23%, Turn 79%)

      Hero shows 6:spade: J:spade: (Flush, Ace High)

      Main Pot [314.5 BB]: (Pre 14%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
      Side Pot#1 [15 BB]: (Pre 26%, Flop 23%, Turn 79%)

      BTN wins 294.5 BB
      Hero wins 14 BB
  • 6 replies
    • Netgames999
      Netgames999
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2006 Posts: 1,890

      Flop gives me a flush draw with the king already on the board. I bet to get money in the pot and to make sure that there is no bigger bet than I can afford drawing to.
      Sorry, but this makes no sense what so ever.
      1. If someone bets PS and you don't have the odds to call. Easy game. Just fold. No shame in that.
      2. Betting as a semi bluff might work HU or 3way, but there is no way you get five people to fold.

      Just x/call here if you get the right odds. Maybe even x/fold with the right odds, because with so many people in the pot it is pretty easy to get sucked in if someone behind you decides to x/r.

      Turn:
      Bet is fine. UTG+1 raises over potsize and BTN just calls. This looks insanely strong. UTG+1 looks like a passiv station and BTN like a solid player. BTN will always have a flush or better. Passiv player who raises over PS. That's a big red flag and you should proceed with caution. I would consider folding here. Only the :Qs: might improve your hand. That's not alot.
      If you call the turn. You're still just hoping that both have a single K or weaker flush.


      What do I hope to beat? AK, QQ, K7, worse flushes than mine.
      AK and K7 have a FH.

      To be honest. I think you have a problem here. If I look at your other hands. It is always the same pattern. You are not able to let hands go, if the board turns against you. Sure, in name you have strong hands (set, 2nd NF, overpair). But in the context of the board and how your opponents played there holdings, your hands are simply not good enough.
    • TurokRider
      TurokRider
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.10.2011 Posts: 146
      You have the second flush but that's worth sh!t because the board is paired. You have like the 7th nut hand here.
      With that kind of action on the turn, this should be such an easy fold !
    • Bernasconi
      Bernasconi
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2006 Posts: 486
      Thanks for your hard put honest feedbacks. I will work on my game about folding good hands when the board turns against me. Sometimes I am in the fear of folding a good (not best, but solid) hand against a NL2 wizard who thinks he should go all-in with TPTK on such a board. We have all seen that for sure.

      Originally posted by TurokRider
      You have the second flush but that's worth sh!t because the board is paired. You have like the 7th nut hand here.
      With that kind of action on the turn, this should be such an easy fold !
      If you say that my hand is not worth much on this board I would honestly be interested what you think about BTN's play? I mean would it be okay go push all-in on the turn with the nut flush? According to your feedback it would be like the 6th best hand and he has to be afraid of full houses himself. I am just wondering to get everything in my head.

      I have not played many post flop situations with hands like this so far. I am eager to learn and improve my post flop play in particular.
    • clovenhoofsdoom
      clovenhoofsdoom
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2016 Posts: 195
      Dont go broke with 2nd Nuts in limped pots - especially 6 (!!!!!!!) - handed.
    • TurokRider
      TurokRider
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.10.2011 Posts: 146
      Originally posted by Bernasconi
      If you say that my hand is not worth much on this board I would honestly be interested what you think about BTN's play? I mean would it be okay go push all-in on the turn with the nut flush? According to your feedback it would be like the 6th best hand and he has to be afraid of full houses himself. I am just wondering to get everything in my head.
      thb, I don't like any line you and your players take. If I was UTG+1 , I would just call your bet and hope to make a boat. Btn's initial call is oke since he has the best flush, but after your shove and utg+1's call, I will toss my A-flush for sure.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Gold
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,183
      the A-flush is afraid of 77 and K7 exactly. it's not the easiest fold ever, but it's probably right, never go broke in limped pots etc.
      of course, the 2nd nutflush is terrible and UTG+1 is completely insane