Steals and ReSteals article for SSS

    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hi people,

      I'm working my way through the Steals and ReSteals article for the SSS and i dont really understand the table on the first page as i dont think it is explained very well or maybe its just me being a bit thick :D



      I understand the top line is opponents Fold BB to steal and the vertical line on the left is the raise size we make from CO/BTN but what do the figures inside this mean.

      i.e. if you raise 4BB against an opponent who has a Fold BB to steal % of 80, what does the 91 mean below.

      Cheers,
      -Steve
  • 17 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      The SB% fold percentage as shown by SB% and its dependence on BB%

      Maybe PS has to add As one can see in the following table: after that ?
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      So in my example above the 91 is what the villiams fold SB to Steal needs to be if we steal from the CO/BTN then Gerv?

      Regards,
      -Steve
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      like steve, was also bewildered by this article. and its something i really want to understand! can anyone explain this in simple terms? sir gerv?
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Im bumping this thread in order to get some more answers hopefully.

      Cheers,
      -Steve
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey Steve,

      I also pasted this thread link to Xarry2's skype - so he will hopefully take a look into it :)

      I'll also take a look at the article later to see if we can make it clearer. I just know that the Gold Article "Adjusting the Re-steal range" is supposedly quite good ;)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      Thanks SoyCD. I read the gold article. It is great!
      but it is about Adjusting Re-raise ranges and says that for Re-steals, please refer to this article... with the link to the same silver confusing article.

      I think many members would benefit from having that silver article about resteals made clearer. it is actually the first step of the sss player away from following charts like a bot and attempting to adjust their game.

      Cheers! and thanks for the attention. :)
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hey Soy,

      Thanks so much for helping in this matter, its really appreciated. I think, like purplefizz has mentioned, it will help alot of people if it is made a bit clearer as it is part of the next step in the progression of the sss.

      As for the "adjusting the re-raise range", its just a shame im not gold yet ;) .

      Regards,
      -Steve
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hello SoyCD,

      Any update on this matter.

      Regards,
      -Steve
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      I believe the vague gist of the matter is that you steal looser when the BB's fold to steal number is higher.
      I think the table is just trying to show you that it works?

      That seems fairly obvious though. In reality it would be interesting to see some suggested steal ranges. At the moment I tend to steal occasionally with any decent hands but I never steal with complete trash because I figure if I'm called I want a chance to hit something.

      As to resteals I think one of the best hands to resteal with is a pair. If you get called its pretty likely to be a 50/50 and of course we have massive fold equity as a SSS player. You have to pick your targets though.
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hello Phil,

      I understand that the table is in relation to the Fold BB VS Steal % and the size of the raise but that still doesn't explain what the figures inside the box mean.

      It cant be the success % of the steal with a 3BB raise or 4BB raise against the fold BB vs Steal % of the opponent because the figure inside the box gets higher the lower the opponents Fold BB vs Steal % gets.

      Regards,
      -Steve
    • mishuq
      mishuq
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 436
      I also had some difficulties in understanding most part of this article, but sort it out somehow about 3-4 months ago. unfortunately I didn't get to use it too much because I had to drop some limits and I don't use stats there.
      as far as I remember I got to the conclusion that those values are the EV result when calculating it with the specified fold BB to steal and normal fold SB to steal (90%) values but anyway, you made me curious again
      so guess I'll look for a pen and paper and get back on this later :P
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      So if i understand this correct mishug if we raise 4BB against an opponent with 80% Fold BB vs Steal we will have an EV of 91% and if we raise 3BB against an opponent with with 90% Fold BB vs Steal we will have an EV of 74%.

      Regards,
      -Steve
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Okay this aint an official statement but I had some talk with xarry2 about this article, he approached me first since SoyCD sended him the article to review this.


      Back in the days where I was silver, I was not getting the article either. I only got the resteal chart + cliffnotes. to be short: I found the article far too difficult for a Silver Article.

      I said this to xarry2 and it is up to him if this article is appropriate enough to maintain or that it should be revised.

      I hope the latter one but xarry2 is now on vacation so guess we have to wait.

      - Gerv
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hello Gerv,

      Thank you for the unofficial update ;)

      I totally agree with you that the first part of the article is way too confusing and doesn't explain itself very well at all hence the reason for this thread.

      I personally think, and hope, that the "Steals" part of the article gets fully revised as i have never been more confused than with this one section.

      Kind Regards,
      -Steve
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey guys,

      Sorry for the lack of updates. I passed the article on to xarry2 who advised me to revise the article since it is partially outdated and not really good in its current format. I therefore passed it on to our education department who told me they were already working on it - but couldn't give me any eta.

      So the good news is; we are aware of it and its on the to-do list. The bad news is; we have a really long to-do list ;)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • mishuq
      mishuq
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 436
      ok
      after some tests, I found out it doesn't give you the EV as I stated before.perhaps if you just use a certain value for the big blind, but I suppose it's impossible. gonna do some more research though as I am a perfectionist and can't just let this go (yep, that's unfortunate for my time schedule but can't help it)

      as for the article, I think just remaking the table on the first page by mentioning what the values in all columns and rows represent should be enough. re-steals and ev maximization are ok
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Hello Soy,

      Its good news that the article is being updated and im sure it will be worth the wait.

      Yourself and Xarrys involvement in helping to sort out the issue is very much appreciated.

      Keep up the great work mate.

      Regards,
      -Steve