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How to turn a turtle into a grinder !

    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Hello to all Pokerists,

      My Name is Jean-Claude and i'm french. I expatriated myself couple years ago already.
      I didn't play poker in a very long time and i was more the kind of recreational player seeking fun at cash games FL.
      Lost some and won it back playing freerolls in the old time of Full Tilt Poker. Then after the black friday i stopped poker.
      Couple weeks ago i started to play again but that time with the goal to become a grinder of micro and medium stakes.
      I'm not an ego player trying to beat every single player i can find, my goal is to slowly become a high volume player.
      The kind of games i want to crush are turbo SNGs 9/45/180 Players and give a try to Spins.

      So far i accumulated around 400 Sngs tourneys on a site and 200 on an other one, i started by 2 tabling at start and 4 tabling by now. I play doing short sets.
      I use a very tight BR management and don't plan to move higher before to get more than 1K Sngs / Site. Slow and Steady is my way.
      Coming from FL SH i had to face huge changes without talking about the speed but i'm getting used to.
      Worked and still work on ICM and GTO to improve my skills for critical situations but not to follow to the letter.

      For now i have positive results and ITM% / ROI% ratio and of course there is always room for improvement.

      Next steps are :

      - Finish to get the 1K Sngs 9P data sample for a better overview
      - Keep working on the game obviously and analyse my sessions using my tracker , SNG Wizzard and HRC
      - Register to one more or two poker rooms
      - Increase the number of tables to 6 then 8 and also increase the number of sets
      - Learn to use HUD stats properly and how to exploits those Data ( So far i just use color labels and notes to keep tracks of players even if i have a tracker )
      - Ask around and find the best way to reduce monetary variance effects ( Stop Losses strategies on downswings vs mixing games , vs lowering stake or Table
      number , vs playing in an other room )
      I would really appreciate advices of multi-tablers with medium and high volume to know what they find the more effective
      - Learn to adjust to ante kicking in from start in SNGs and working on the 45/180 P Sngs strategies
      - Take shots on higher stakes while on upswings
      - Exercise a little and get healthier food since i'm off corticoids i've a lot to catch up

      I'll try to update the blog as much as possible for motivation and also to share toughts , experience , graphs and tries

      Feel Free to share any tought, idea or advice they will be all welcome anytime


      Kind Regards,
      J-C.
  • 117 replies
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Here my graph on 414 Turbo Sngs 9 Players :


      C-Net Won = 22.18
      ITM% : 45.17
      ROI% : 10.71

      1st Places: 50 / 2nd Place: 55 / 3rd Place 82

      VPIP: 19.85 / PFR: 16.100 / 3-betPF 6.40 / C-bet F 87.84 ...

      There is 40 Sngs missing since i didn't use tracker at all when i started , my C-net won should be slighty higher.
      Those Turbo Sngs are the 0.50c 9 Players .
    • Team0zum
      Team0zum
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2018 Posts: 100
      It seems ur playing at Pokerstars. You can ask the tournaments data and then just import it to PT4

      Also 1k games is no samplesize. I think like between 2000-5000 is relevant though for 50c 9mans it should give a clue if you beat or crush the games.

      But talking about 45-180mans u need a lot More than 1k games. Especially with the brutal distribution on the prize structure. I would look at those games with filtering bb/100 on different table situations. Early game bubble and final table. For 9mans just 6 handed 5 handed bubble and itm positions.

      Then Same analysis with stack sizes and see how u play those.

      Hud I would build from scratch. This way you learn it automatically.

      Name/hands/bb
      Vpip/pfr/3bet/fold3bet

      That's all you need in the beginning. Make your hud show situational stats so it shows stats when there are 6-9/4-5/2-3/0-2 players at the table. This way you have data on villains style depending on situation. I think it's even possible to have a different hud pop for HU in the end. Post flop and 4bets etc are irrelevant info when you mainly play strangers and seldomly get any relevant data. When u move up ad AFq% and W$SD or something if you think and upon landing on more reggy stakes at STTs u can add more stuff then as you have learned which info u would find interesting to have. The basic hud applies long on MTSNGs though as lots and lots of randoms u never get good samples on.

      Hope this helps, coming from a "retired" midstakes MTT reg.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Pretty nice advice , Thanks Team0zum.
      I also think that a 1K samplesize isn't enough to be accurate enough but it's a start in order to take occasional shots during upswings on higher stakes.
      Also agree mainly to have a full use of a HUD you need a huge sample of data on a player and unless with regs it's unlikely to happen at micro stakes.
      Maybe a bit more at medium stakes but still a long road to go before to get there and plenty of adjustments and tries.
      I would like to know your own opinion about downswings , of course variance cannot be avoided but when on downswing do you more likely play on
      an other poker room ? reduce the number of tables you play ? play at a lower stake ? what is the most effective to you ?

      Thanks and have a super weekend Team0zum.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Here my graph on 221 Turbo Sngs 9 Players :


      C-Net Won = 11.74 $
      ITM% : 40.27
      ROI% : 10.53

      1st Places: 35 / 2nd Place: 28 / 3rd Place 26
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Here my graph on 221 Turbo Sngs 9 Players :


      C-Net Won = 11.74 $
      ITM% : 40.27
      ROI% : 10.53

      1st Places: 35 / 2nd Place: 28 / 3rd Place 26
    • Team0zum
      Team0zum
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2018 Posts: 100
      Hi

      Well during ds I always went thru the ds volume with the above mentioned quick filters. Once you make the quick filters it very easy to go thru the volume. Just choose the filter on dropdown and boom. And obviously view graphs as hands and bb won. Now you can quickly see if you are running bad on say push/fold situations so have 2 filters on that 0-10bb and 11-20bb stacks. Then 21-30 30-50 51-75 76+ bb stacks.

      Usually you have some hunch what is wrong. But the graphs will give quick vision if you are leaking somewhere. And then go thru the hands. Say bubble situations are something where you start playing scared when on ds. If graphs look like that (on 9m 45m 180m bubbles u should know the stacksizes as bbs) filter that and run that volume thru HRC. Holdem Resources Calculator. Quick analyze shows fast if you are screwing shit up.

      As long as your EV is going up on the hands bb won graphs you can be semi calm.

      Study the hrc ranges to given situations and you should be light years away from even the good micro grinders.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Thanks Team0zum from now on i will more review my sessions and check my game that way using more filters. Usually i was doing by position and by number of players.
      Also i can say on 9P Sngs im more tighter than i should for a simple reason. At micros a few have understanding of ICM and the Risk/Reward ratio is for me lower that for instance in MTTs.
      On a MTT i will be more than happy to make shoves when i need to and take more risks to get my chance to grab the 1st place since the reward in BI will be huge. In 9P Sngs that reward
      isn't that huge and against random micro players i tighten up my ranges of push/fold unless im the shortest or the 2nd shortest stack and players are unlikely to go to war against each other.

      About multi-tabling i think i'll try to apply a strategy based on stox trading market. the Fibonnaci retracement trend lines. Not sure it's the right word in english.
      using Fibonnaci numbers i trace lines on my graph those lines let's call them resistance walls. Usually it means it might have changes on the overall trending or can significantly mark a trending.

      On my 1st graph it should be like this :


      On those lines i will reduce volume and observe closely the trending and on high trend i will try to increase volume.
      Probably a crazy way to do but i'm curious to try and see how it goes.
    • Team0zum
      Team0zum
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2018 Posts: 100
      I think fibonacci is for predicting trend changes and estimate spots for buying or selling. Variance cannot be predicted with trend estimations.

      Don't Make toi complicated analysis on things when PT4 can easily let u know what is going on. Complete analysis with HRC calculations and like I said be lightyears away from micro grinders.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      I'm trying to review my sessions and use the filters on PT4 and it's a huge mess. tried to get stats by position then with quick filters to get it for 3 players but it gives me one more position it shouldn't.
      In the Quick Filter i go to Hand Details , Number of players and there is only Players Dealt Into Hand / Players Seeing Flop / Players on Turn / On river ...
      Any suggest guys ?

      The Only way i can filter threw position and number of players is threw stats then report and Holdem Range Visualizer
    • metalmonkey80
      metalmonkey80
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 15.08.2013 Posts: 2,706
      Hi Jean-Claude,
      Welcome to Pokerstrategy.com and great start to your blog :f_thumbsup:
      Looking forward to reading future updates and success stories to come :f_drink:
      Good luck at the tables
      Regards

      Matt
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Thank you Matt :f_cool:
      Don't hesitate to come around and give your opinion and advices as well.

      Best of luck,
      J-C
    • TJtheTJ
      TJtheTJ
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,643
      Hey, you mean you want to filter for all situations with exactly 3 players left? If so just use the "Players dealt into hand" filter that you mentioned and set it between 3 and 3.

      Hope I understood it correctly and that this fixes it for you :)
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      I agree with you but it's not working correctly. i go to statistics then Summary >> Grouped by position i activate the quick filter "Players Dealt Into Hand Between 3 and 3" and apply.
      But then i get 4 positions BUTTON / CO / BB / SB .. :s_confused:

      The weird thing is that CO contain only 1 Hand ? when others around 900

      And yes you understood correctly but unfortunately i already tried that way :)
      Thanks for trying to help TJtheTJ :s_thumbsup:
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      I guess it's a bug due to a good reason . During that specific hand i was blinded all-in after loosing a 80/20 against a stack slightly lower than mine.
      To fix it i'll remove that hand if there is an option for that and it should do it hopefully.

      Update:
      There is no way to remove a specific hand from PT4, we can only purge the entire session/tournament
    • metalmonkey80
      metalmonkey80
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 15.08.2013 Posts: 2,706
      Don't hesitate to come around and give your opinion and advices as well.
      I will try my best to give you my tuppence but generally I have a habit of not listening to my own advise and make the same mistakes :mdr:

      grrr dam it why did you have to talk about it metalmonkey80 i'm on diet since 15 days
      What diet are you on? Have tried a few now. Something you might find interesting to read and helped me a lot while planning and executing my diet strategy The Quick Guide to Skyrocketing Your Poker and Life Productivity although aimed for the poker player, the advise is transferable to a broad category of uses :f_thumbsup:
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      @metalmonkey80
      What diet are you on? Have tried a few now. Something you might find interesting to read and helped me a lot while planning and executing my diet strategy
      First of all you have to know i've been on corticoids and painkillers during over 6 / 7 years and corticoids like most drugs in general make you take weight.
      My diet is pretty simple, in short eat green and cut the crackers / pizzas / coke / sugars ... Once a month still make yourself happy by eating what you like without excess preferably.
      In 16 Days of green diet i moved from 96 KG to 88.6 KG i leave it up to you guys to convert it in pounds lol ...
      So yes green salad , green vegetables , no sugar drinks at all but water instead. If you a coffe drinker , keep it but reduce sugar you put in ... Avoid fruit juice bottles unless they are really without sugar added and Sodas. No more butter or oil cooking unless with very small portions. white of chicken is okey , fish occassionaly depending on wich ones and fruits.
      When you feel up to go for a normal walk around the neighbourhoud and it will do it. The hard part is to change the bad habits and keep it that way.
    • metalmonkey80
      metalmonkey80
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 15.08.2013 Posts: 2,706
      It sounds like you are doing well in the small amount of time you have been on the diet and that it is working for you :f_thumbsup: Your right about the hardest part being changing those habits and keeping it that way. Schnitzelfisch covers this very subject in the link I posted under the section 30 days to make a habit.
      I wish you continued progress and look forward to reading how you get on in the coming weeks and months.
      Keep up the good work :f_drink:
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Thanks metalmonkey80 and i do plan to keep it that way. Once i set a goal in my mind i rarely deviate from it unless i have a very very good reason to do.
      I can be very stubborn and that diet is necessary for me to feel more confortable find back my true self. To be honest im still surprised than my diet way works on me since i still take some pills
      and tried lot of things before but without effects at all.

      The article link you posted seems very interesting in many ways for now i just gave it a look on the fly but will check it more in detail and keep notes on the points i want to improve. :)
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Silver
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 237
      Today i registered to Titan Poker threw PokerStrategy offer. One more room to play in.
      So far my overall impressions are mitigated. Players traffic is low and interface seems a bit cheap but will see when i play couple times around. Will also check the traffic on different daytime.