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[NL50] K8o sb vs BB

    • winspear
      winspear
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2016 Posts: 11
      Hi guys,
      I misplayed this hand today and there were a couple of points where I think I could have taken a different line. Please let me know what you think:

      NL 50 6 handed:

      Folds to Hero in the small blind with Kh8d
      SB and BB both have 100BB effective.
      Hero raises 4x as part of a wide sb/bb steal strategy.
      Villain, in BB calls.

      Pot $4
      Flop Qc 8c 4d

      Hero checks, Villain raises to $3, Hero c/r to $12, Villain calls.

      Notes: CR is a line I had decided to take 15% of the time with this board, and the randomiser gave me a 16 (I cheated a bit, who doesn't like action!). Most of the time I would be check/calling this board. My c\r range here would likely be:

      AA, QQ, 44, 88, a few Ax c (most would be in cbet range but some played as CR), some weaker flush draws with backdoor equity like Tc9c, some merged hands like Ac4h rarely (which K8 here is a part of).

      I didn't think clearly enough about villains range (which is the problem with this hand). I put him on Qx (most likely), flush draws, and some slowplayed 88/44.

      Turn is Ah
      Pot $ 26
      Turn Qc 8c 4d Ah

      Hero barrels $16, Villain calls.

      In retrospect, I do not like this street. Although you might think A would be a good card for the check raiser, it doesn't actually help my range at all (except the AA I play as a C/R rarely). Against a thinking villain, I don't think they fold QJ here because my bluffs haven't improved, and my value hands are still ahead. Thoughts on turn?

      River is Ks
      Pot 58
      River Qc 8c 4d Ah Ks

      Hero shoves remaining $21, Villain calls.
      Villain shows AdQs taking the pot.

      I think this shove was bad. I made two pair and shoved for value without thinking about his range. In retrospect the only hand I am getting called by that makes it to the river is Q8, maaaaaybe TT or JJ but I don't think that is too realistic. Villain only has sets, missed flush draws, and apparently AQ that didn't three bet. I think playing this is a check/decide (fold sometimes, call sometimes) is better. Thoughts on river?

      I can see a number of points where a different line would have likely been better. Perhaps this is wp though? Any opinions welcome.
  • 3 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,230
      Hero raises 4x as part of a wide sb/bb steal strategy.
      First, I think raising 4x and planning to steal wide are in conflict. People overfold on the blinds and they fold almost as much vs 2.5bb raise than a 3bb raise for example. If you are planning to steal wide and use crappy hands, then I think it makes sense to raise smaller.

      Then OTF you hit a mid pair. OOP I can agree with a check call but I think this hand is not good for check raise. You should think about the hands you raise instead of frequencies. Raising 15% is fine but some hands work better than others. For example if you decide to open raise 13% from UTG, you do not open raise 72o because a RNG says so. Also your raise is quite big.

      This hand doesn't have many barreling cards OTT. Now you didn't improve OTT which means that I would plan to give up most of the time. Now you bet and basically hope villain folds.

      OTR I agree with you. If bet again, I'm not sure how many weaker hands will call you. I think TT and JJ would have folded OTF or OTT. I think it would be better to check and induce bluffs from missed draws.
    • winspear
      winspear
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2016 Posts: 11
      For clarity, I had meant that I would specifically raise k8 in this spot 15% of the time. I am not raising any two cards 15% of the time. By always c/c mid pairs, I think my range becomes too well defined on later streets. Also, the 4x strategy is something I am trialling atm ,after reading a free strategy article from upswing poker, https://upswingpoker.com/use-these-4-rules-to-play-your-small-blind-smart/ - I havent yet decided if I agree with their conclusions.

      Thank you for your feedback Lassi.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,230
      For clarity, I had meant that I would specifically raise k8 in this spot 15% of the time. I am not raising any two cards 15% of the time. By always c/c mid pairs, I think my range becomes too well defined on later streets.
      Sounds complex. I'm not sure how that will work out and I think it is probably unnecessary. I think this hand is not so good to check raise, but it is just my opinion. And I don't see the need to raise this hand just 15% of the time. That would only mean your check raising range has midpairs in it. By check calling this always instead of just 75% of the time doesn't change your check calling range, it changes your check raising range. Your check raising range is already polarized and it has nuts, good draws and some backdoors and so on.

      I took a look at the article and I think it is fine. I disagree with the open size from SB though. And I personally use a bit different strategy and ranges but it doesn't mean the ones suggested in the article are bad.