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[NL2] overconfident triple barrel?

    • devinni
      devinni
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2012 Posts: 13
      Preflop: seemed like a good spot to squeeze to me.
      Flop: make a c-bet, dry flop. think this is ok.
      Turn: In hindsight I may want to give up here, as it is a really dry board and the turn did not change anything
      River: would probably check this one next time. Same reasoning as the turn, villain probably has some pair he is not giving up. What do you think?

      PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 192 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
      Hero (SB): 281.5 BB
      BB: 100 BB
      UTG: 111 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
      MP: 119 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      CO: 148 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: Q:spade:

      UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13.5 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 10.5 BB

      Flop: (31 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: 2:spade: 3:club:
      Hero bets 10 BB, CO calls 10 BB

      Turn: (51 BB, 2 players) 8:club:
      Hero bets 16.5 BB, CO calls 16.5 BB

      River: (84 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
      Hero bets 27.5 BB, CO raises to 108 BB and is all-in, fold

      CO wins 134 BB
  • 10 replies
    • sdf256
      sdf256
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2016 Posts: 177
      Looks fine to me until turn. There I would just check and give up.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,235
      I wouldn't cbet the flop. You are out of position, villain called a squeeze so he should have a lot of pocket pairs and overcards. I don't think you will get many folds. But since the sizing is so small I guess it could generate enough folds. Turn bet is unnecessary and river too. With these sizings you don't achieve much. If villain has some weak overpairs like 99 or TT he just keeps on calling. Or the you induce bluffs. What exactly was your thought process when you decided to bet all 3 streets with 30% of the pot sizing and with A high?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Gold
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,109
      trying to make people fold 99+ with this line in nl2 is rather optimistic. you might get a fold from other pairs ott or otr but i don't believe in this play at all
    • devinni
      devinni
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2012 Posts: 13
      Thanks for all feedback so far. It definately makes me rethink the hand.

      This was my initial thougt process:

      Flop: dry flop, so i tend to bet small (30%) with a wide range. This range includes overcards like AQo. What I did not take into consideration enough thoug is that: (1) i am OOP (2) it is a 3-bet pot, and hence villains range includes a lot of overpairs. If I were IP in a single raised pot I think the c-bet makes a lot of sense but in this scenario I probably better check the flop as suggested by la55i

      Turn: again small sizing used which achieves nothing. I had not put enough thought in this decision looking back.

      River: no missed draws so betting A high as a bluff does not make sense as I will get too few folds here. Hands that called flop and turn will generally call river and have me beat.
    • sdf256
      sdf256
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2016 Posts: 177
      Yeah I think checking OTF is definitely good. I'd just cbet 1/3 because it's a part of my strategy my coach recommended me to do (to cbet 1/3 with 100% of my range in 3bet pots) and I wanna be consistent with it .
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,235
      Originally posted by sdf256
      Yeah I think checking OTF is definitely good. I'd just cbet 1/3 because it's a part of my strategy my coach recommended me to do (to cbet 1/3 with 100% of my range in 3bet pots) and I wanna be consistent with it .
      I can sort of get why your coach recommended that but not completely.
      People do fold too much vs cbets. We can cbet a lot more than what is optimal. Using a smaller sizing probably makes it even better because they fold too much vs small cbets too and it gives us better risk reward ratio. On the other hand, according to my population analysis, people fold vs cbets slightly less in 3bet pots. I also dislike those general rules a bit.
      This could work in the lowest limits but the higher you go the more important it gets to pick correct spots for these moves.

      Did your coach explain why you should do this?
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 2,065
      What's happening here heh
      half pot's fine on flop what Snowie does and you can include hands like AQo some too then barrel JK, maybe T turns too
      or go bet check bet on J+ rivers

      Turn check why are we barreling small, river large bet is better than this by a lot
      I'd say check>bet big>bet small

      That blanket advice for 1/3 will work on most boards IP not really oop
    • sdf256
      sdf256
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2016 Posts: 177
      Originally posted by la55i
      Originally posted by sdf256
      Yeah I think checking OTF is definitely good. I'd just cbet 1/3 because it's a part of my strategy my coach recommended me to do (to cbet 1/3 with 100% of my range in 3bet pots) and I wanna be consistent with it .
      I can sort of get why your coach recommended that but not completely.
      People do fold too much vs cbets. We can cbet a lot more than what is optimal. Using a smaller sizing probably makes it even better because they fold too much vs small cbets too and it gives us better risk reward ratio. On the other hand, according to my population analysis, people fold vs cbets slightly less in 3bet pots. I also dislike those general rules a bit.
      This could work in the lowest limits but the higher you go the more important it gets to pick correct spots for these moves.

      Did your coach explain why you should do this?
      So I asked him, and I had to misunderstand him :D . He said that advice was meant for a specific situation :D . But then he also said, that I can do that on dry boards 100% of the time.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,235
      Alright, sounds good. But I do agree with LemOn and I think that works better IP but would careful with it when out of position.
    • Mozzek
      Mozzek
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2016 Posts: 1,124
      Preflop I would squeeze as well, I think that´s clear. OTF I wouldn´t cbet, I would just give up. Why? Ppl are stationish MW, they completely overlook its mw and play it as single raised pot, so I would bluff less and go wider for value. That being said, AQo has no potential, we are oop. Villains gonna have PP (which are never folding) or some Ax we dominate. So why would we want to fold out worse Ax, if we hit an A we are gonna get value... (same goes for Qx - we dominate KQ, QJ). All in all I think AQo fits pretty well into x range.