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[NL5] Flop strategy 3bet pot OOP

    • exil97
      exil97
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.03.2013 Posts: 2
      Hi everyone,

      1st ever post here so I hope this will be a good one !

      PokerStars - €0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: €8.43 (VPIP: 19.36, PFR: 16.33, 3Bet Preflop: 7.63, Hands: 692)
      Hero (SB): €6.24
      BB: €3.13 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
      UTG: €8.61 (VPIP: 25.77, PFR: 21.13, 3Bet Preflop: 9.88, Hands: 206)
      MP: €18.50 (VPIP: 13.06, PFR: 7.35, 3Bet Preflop: 1.77, Hands: 321)
      CO: €5.91 (VPIP: 24.14, PFR: 17.24, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 29)

      Hero posts SB €0.02, BB posts BB €0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: €0.07) Hero has Q:diamond: K:spade:

      fold, fold, CO raises to €0.15, fold, Hero raises to €0.50, fold, CO calls €0.35

      Flop: (€1.05, 2 players) K:heart: 9:club: T:club:


      Here's a kind of spot I'm not comfortable playing and I hope someone could help.
      CO seems to be reggish with RFI 22% from CO (small sample tho) et folding 66% to 3B.

      So here is my main concern :
      Vs this type of player I'd 3B in the SB with a range like [URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/180916034600122898.jpg.html]https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/09/16/mini_180916034600122898.jpg[/url]
      and assume CO is calling with a range like [URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/180916034737690140.jpg.html]https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/09/16/mini_180916034737690140.jpg[/url]


      So if we put this 2 ranges in equilab we have a small range advantage preflop :

      **Equity** Win Tie
      MP2 56.49% 54.62% 1.86% { 99+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AJo+, KQo }
      MP3 43.51% 41.65% 1.86% { JJ-55, AQs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, AQo-AJo, KJo+ }

      On this particular flop nothing really change if that villain has gained a bit of equity

      Board: KhTc9c
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 54.35% 52.29% 2.06% { 99+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AJo+, KQo }
      MP3 45.65% 43.59% 2.06% { JJ-55, AQs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, AQo-AJo, KJo+ }

      So my question here is how do you approach this kind of spot where both players are close in equity and neither has a real range advantage. What would be your flop strategy in this kind of situation.

      Thoses are the toughest spot to play for me in my progression as a poker player.

      Thanx !
  • 11 replies
    • Andrepipocado
      Andrepipocado
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2018 Posts: 84
      I think this is a bit risky, the micro players are very bad and unpredictable so I find it risky to assign a defined range as you did, how can you be sure that the villain is not flat with AA or A5s or A9s? In addition you have no info from the villain, which makes it even more risky. My tip here is that you play the simple, tight basic aggressive, extract value from your strong hands and lose less with your second best hands!
    • exil97
      exil97
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.03.2013 Posts: 2
      Well, when you assign a range for a player you're mostly in the guessing game, you could never be sure...I tried my best with all small informations I had.
      CO was 4 tabling zoom so I assumed he was somehow reggish and this calling range make sense to me. But let's assume that's he'll be flatting AA, any Axs, and other offsuit braodways the equity doesn't change that much as you'll see below.

      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 55.06% 53.09% 1.96% { 99+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, AJo+, KQo }
      MP3 44.94% 42.98% 1.96% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

      Originally posted by Andrepipocado
      My tip here is that you play the simple, tight basic aggressive, extract value from your strong hands and lose less with your second best hands!
      So with a bit of range advantage, do you consider KQo a strong hand on that board ?
    • aent4x
      aent4x
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.09.2010 Posts: 107
      Hi exil97
      First-as you also said- you have a small sample over CO, especially for the f3bet,I think you need at least 100 hands to start look at it.
      I would call here pre flop, but as you played the hand your
      I think you are in a good shape on this flop. I would c-bet 60% of the pot here.
    • TyCobb
      TyCobb
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 4,085
      I think you should think about the spot something on the line like: What are my best hands here?

      Your "top" valuebets are AA, KK, AK, QJs, TT, T9s or 27 combos.

      You have 138 combos overall. Given that you will have to bluff/can bluff quite a lot on this flop, you should ve some more valuebets and KQ will be nextbest hand to vbet. Most interesting part in betting this hand would be, if is a b/f. Further you should think about hands like QQ, JJ, KJ. Bet these hand or c/c? Do you want to have a c/c- range in this spot etc.?

      I can see some reason for a c/c, which is fine too imo. But i think you can still c/c with KJs, QQ, JJ (when u dont want to bet those).
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,366
      I think the 3bet pre is ok. I also think your 3betting range is ok. Except QTs I would probably just fold and then there are some hands that I would mix with 3bets and just calls.
      The range you gave villain is quite loose in my opinion. I think villain shouldn't call KJo or those suited one gappers like 86s.
      Then, if you have over 10% range advantage it is not small. It is big.
      Then about the sample size. You have 29 hands so let's forget about the stats. aent4x said that you need at least 100 hands to look at fold vs 3bet. I say you need at least 300 hands :D Even in that sample the overall fold to 3bet could easily be 10% off for example. And it makes a difference whether he folds 66% or 56%. And when you want a positional fold vs 3bet the sample size of course needs to be about 6 times as big.

      How I would play the hand myself:
      Bet the flop and go from there. Probably bet flop, bet turn and check/decide OTR. I think betting small and folding vs a raise can work too.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Gold
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,151
      betting is definitely better in vacuum.
      if we want to xc some of our Kx as part of our general strategy (which is reasonable), i would start with hands with a
    • nitrol
      nitrol
      Silver
      Joined: 24.07.2010 Posts: 12,095
      We should bet this flop. We have a hand and we should start betting.
    • viki332
      viki332
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2018 Posts: 11
      indeed
    • MLima1984
      MLima1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2015 Posts: 62
      For me its pretty standard, i would 3bet aswell and cbet maybe 2/3 of the pot OTF.
      I only would worry if i got called.
    • nitrol
      nitrol
      Silver
      Joined: 24.07.2010 Posts: 12,095
      Why do you bet then if you are to be scared of a call?
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Gold
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,018
      First of all, range advantage is quite far away from beeing resumed by mere range vs range equity. Not even close. All in all it's better not to talk about those two magic words all the time if you don't know perfectly what you mean, and really, most people who uses them on forums don't. Not even close.

      I agree with 3betting KQo SB vs CO and I quite like your ranges for the spot but I'd make them a little wider again. Whatever though.

      On that wet flop I suppose I'd cbet half pot.