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[NL5] is it possible to lay down this hand ?

    • uimeoca
      uimeoca
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2017 Posts: 2
      PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 66 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      Hero (SB): 100 BB
      BB: 262 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      UTG: 99.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      MP: 48.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      CO: 106 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7:heart: Q:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

      Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) T:spade: J:diamond: K:spade:
      Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB

      Turn: (14 BB, 2 players) A:club:
      Hero bets 7 BB, BB calls 7 BB

      River: (28 BB, 2 players) A:heart:
      Hero bets 27 BB, BB raises to 54 BB, Hero raises to 81 BB, BB calls 27 BB

      Hero shows 7:heart: Q:heart: (Straight, Ace High)
      (Pre 31%, Flop 25%, Turn 74%)
      BB shows T:diamond: T:heart: (Full House, Tens full of Aces)
      (Pre 69%, Flop 75%, Turn 26%)
      BB wins 183.5 BB


      is it possible to lay this hand down ?
  • 11 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,348
      Yes. River raises are almost always the nuts.
      It is clear that any Q makes a straight. You did 3 barrel and bet pot OTR so you look quite strong here. If villain has a Q it doesn't make much sense for him to raise it because he would most likely be splitting or be behind against a full house. He did min-raise you which makes this look like value. If you look like you have a strong hand, would he try to bluff you out with a min raise?

      The river raises are so rarely bluffed that you should really overfold a lot. For example when you have a 3rd or 4th nut flush and you get raised, I wouldn't blame you for folding. It is super difficult to press the fold button with very strong hands but if you open your tracking software and see how you are doing when you call a river raise, you will see that you are losing tons of money.
    • uimeoca
      uimeoca
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2017 Posts: 2
      thx a lot la55i :)
    • diabloykiss
      diabloykiss
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2018 Posts: 59
      i think u should've check/call that river. or bet / call it. but never re-raise
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Silver
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 169
      I'm just calling his raise because of the rake.
      It's clear that the both of you have a hand, so just call and avoid giving the room so many rake. Besides, you spend less if he has a full-house.
    • TyCobb
      TyCobb
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 4,085
      Originally posted by zetozinho
      I'm just calling his raise because of the rake.
      It's clear that the both of you have a hand, so just call and avoid giving the room so many rake. Besides, you spend less if he has a full-house.
      I think we call here 100% of the time cause it doesnt make sense to 3-bet at all. We wont get called by worse.

      i think its a c/c otr btw.
    • nitrol
      nitrol
      Silver
      Joined: 24.07.2010 Posts: 12,092
      We can call the river raise but not invest more in this pot. What will you achieve by re-raising except paying more to hands that beat you?
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Silver
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 169
      Originally posted by TyCobb
      Originally posted by zetozinho
      I'm just calling his raise because of the rake.
      It's clear that the both of you have a hand, so just call and avoid giving the room so many rake. Besides, you spend less if he has a full-house.
      I think we call here 100% of the time cause it doesnt make sense to 3-bet at all. We wont get called by worse.
      i think its a c/c otr btw.
      We're obviously calling here 100%. 3betting the river is pointless because:
      - If he has a Q (very likely) it's a split pot and you lose money due to rake.
      - If he has you beat (full-house), he's not folding.

      You could check-call if he bets, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to 3rd barrel this river.
    • nitrol
      nitrol
      Silver
      Joined: 24.07.2010 Posts: 12,092
      In the best scenario we split, in the worse - we lose to a FH... No need to raise.
    • MLima1984
      MLima1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2015 Posts: 62
      Everyone has said it, just call his raise without pushing all in.
      I know u feel like "its all or nothing", but its a 1/4 of ur stack.
    • Laci24
      Laci24
      Gold
      Joined: 07.10.2009 Posts: 6,175
      Originally posted by zetozinho
      I'm just calling his raise because of the rake.
      :f_o:
      Gentleman, can you write your full calculation?
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 382
      Without full stats of a player or Vs an Unknown opponent i think you should almost always give him credit.
      There's plenty combinations possible for a split OTT and also that beats you as well OTR. I think it would be better to try to see a cheap showdown since you mostly gonna be paid by a hand that will split the pot or a hand better than yours.Also Vs Too much action OTR i think it's a Fold unless like i said previously it's cheap.
      About rake , can't say i'm not a CG player but if you spend a whole stack in a call because of the Rake it doesn't make sens at all in my opinion.

      Best of Skills & Luck @ Tables,
      J-C