Chip stacks - what's important? BBs or relation to opponents'?

    • Tim64
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,402
      ICM throws up some strange results which it's hard for me to understand.

      Situn 1 (3 handed) Blinds 50/100 : Hero is BU with 540, holding 10,3s; SB 9,560; BB has 9750. Push/fold?

      Situn 2 (3 handed) Blinds 200/400 : Hero is BU with 1830, holding J,6o; SB 8,820; BB has 8750. Push/fold?

      ICM says it's a fold in both cases but gives hero's range as 46.9% in the first case and 32.1% in second case.

      My question is this: Hero is significantly short stacked in both cases. In scenario 1 he has 5.4 BB left; in scenario 2 he has 4.5 BB. So why would his range be tighter in the second case? Surely you would expect him to be pushing wider? Also, isn't a call by an opponent more likely in scenario 1, in which case you'd expect hero to be pushing tighter?

      Or is it because, although Hero has less chips in scenario 2 when measured in BB, he has more chips (relatively) in comparison to his opponents? i.e. about 1:4.7 in second case but only 1:19 in the first case? If it is this, can someone explain - in layman's terms - why it makes a difference to the push range?

      The only other difference I can see is the in situ 1, BB has the biggest stack whereas in situ 2, its SB. But it's pretty marginal and I can't see how it would make much difference to hero's range.

      Help appreciated!
  • 2 replies
    • bogie
      Joined: 23.09.2007 Posts: 109
      hi tim

      I.C.M is not perfect !! always remember that.
      in the first example T-3s....this is a fold,because you are so short stacked(5BB) and if you shoved either big stacks would call because they have such a huge calling range 40%+...EQUITY IS EVERYTHING .If you find your self in this position you need a strong hand to push against a big stack .In this example you will need a range of 10.7 %....66+,A9+,A-8s+,KQs
      IF they are calling extremley loose you would need a 3.8% range....TT+,AK,AQs+

      from 15 BB you should be pushing your stack,but you need to be able to judge your opponents calling ranges aswell as their pushing ranges .
      ask your self these questions before you push/call :....

      what is my stack size (BB)
      what is my opponents stack size(BB)
      what is my position
      what is the size of the blinds
      knowing the answers to these will help you decide which hands to push/call/ or fold.use something like sitngo wiz to help you with these decisions.

      with the j-6o example, its just the same according to the sitngo wiz,you need a 10% range to shove.....but now you have less than 5 BB and you cant wait for a premium hand anymore,so you should disagree with what the wiz says and shove . here's why :-

      j-6o vs 40% range , equity = 34.035 %

      34% of the time you will win if called by a big stack ,if they fold you win the blinds and survive another round .if you have less than 5BB you should shove any two cards !

      hopefully the judge will explain things better for you .good luck :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      less BB you have, the looser you push...