Stuck on $1.20 SNG's on Titan

    • rowzee
      rowzee
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2008 Posts: 151
      Hi guys, haven't posted in a while, but here goes. I've been playing the micro limit SNG's on Titan and I feel that I'm not doing well enough on the $1.20 level.

      I first started with the $0.24 SNG's and it took me 145 games with the final ROI of 30% to move up (I use 60BI rule). Then on the $0.60 level I played 124 games with a ROI of 48% and was ready to move up to the $1.20's. Bear in mind that I didn't know a whole lot about ICM back then.

      The 1.20's started out quite well and I was averaging 15% ROI and at some point was able to move up to the $2.40's. That was a complete disaster, me losing 20BI within 52 games with no apparent reason, so I was forced to move back to the $1.20's and have been grinding them since. The thing is, I feel as if I'm lacking something important that would let me beat this level.

      I've played a total of 416 games on this level with a ROI of 10% which makes me a winning player but I think I can do much better than this and the game on this level shouldn't be much differen from that on the $0.60 level where I averaged a ROI of 48%. It just seems that I've been sitting at this level for ages not learning anything new and unable to improve my game. The thing is, most of my sessions (6-18 games a session) are losing sessions no matter how hard I try to play my A-game and once in a while there comes a session in which I finish ITM on most of the games, which helps me keep my head above the water. Here's a graph which seems ok, but could be so much nicer (notice the almost vertical upswings and the inevitable downswings):



      I don't really know what else there is to do to help me improve my game on this level. I'm confident with the early and middle stages, so the fault must lie in my application of ICM. I use SNG Wizard to analyze my game and it just keeps telling me that I'm pushing too tight, especially from the SB, so I'm working on that. I'm also using ICM Trainer, I can score 90% constantly but I'm aming for 95% since I've heard that's what it takes to really be able to beat the games. Still, is it that important on my level? And how about adjusting to my opponents' ranges? I also frequently feel that I'm a victim of numerous suckouts on Titan which have prevented me from placing ITM more times than I like to remember.

      So, I guess the bottomline is, what does it take to beat $1.20 SNG's on Titan with a decent ROI of, say 20% (so that I would have something to look forward to on higher levels ROI-wise) ?
  • 11 replies
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      grind it out a little, your basing your conclusions on a small samplesize (atleast the 1.20 and 2.20 games).

      You are asking for tips to improve your game: but we can't help you without specific questions ^^

      Spam the handsforum imo :heart:

      btw: your graph looks good/standard :)
    • rowzee
      rowzee
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2008 Posts: 151
      Well, it may be that the sample size is too small, but then if I played say another 1000 games and my ROI stayed around the same 10% it would surely be an indication that that's the best I can do at this level with my current set of skills.

      I do have a question about ICM; how do you go about increasing the number of successive decision from 90% to 95%? It seems that the first 90% are pretty straightforward, but anything above that is hard work and I'm not entirely sure about each individual move. Are there any rough guidelines describing why certain ICM decisions are the way they are? Or is it just about developing a feel about roughly what ranges are correct to push with? Also, how well should I know what cards correspond to each given range? Would it be enough for now to learn the ranges with 5% increments (i.e. top 5%, 10% etc.)?
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      imo you shoulden't stress about the icm trainer too much, the ranges on your tables are completely different anyway. When I trained with it I often encountered spots where -$EV shoves are optimal, but the icm wizard doesn't recognize it.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Also, remember the rake. I'm guessing that the 1.20$ trnys have .20$ rake, which is 16%+. If you consider that 11$ tournys have a 1$ rake (only 9%), it's easy to see that your rate of return is always likely to be lower at the micro stakes games (other things being equal). That's why it will always be more of a grind at the micro stakes/turbos. You just have to grin and bear it and remind yourself that you are a winning player.

      148 games at .6$ level simply isn't enough to say that your ROI is 48%. My ROI for my first ten or so games of 3$ was over 300% - an entirely unrealistic figure and one that would plummet soon after :) I have been told that you need 1000 games for your ROI to be at all indicative.

      Well, it may be that the sample size is too small, but then if I played say another 1000 games and my ROI stayed around the same 10% it would surely be an indication that that's the best I can do at this level with my current set of skills.


      Yes, if so, I would agree. You're some way off from that, though. And see above re rake.

      One other tip: post hands on the forum to ensure your postflop skills are as good as they can be. Potentially, this is at least as good a use of your time as perfecting ICM. You want to make sure you're maximising winnings when you get a good hand/flop. The more chips you enter the push/fold phase with, the more options you have and the less need you will have to have 95%+ accurate ICM pushes.

      glatt,
      Tim
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by Tim64

      148 games at .6$ level simply isn't enough to say that your ROI is 48%. My ROI for my first ten or so games of 3$ was over 300% - an entirely unrealistic figure and one that would plummet soon after :) I have been told that you need 1000 games for your ROI to be at all indicative.

      At least 1K hands for a decent samplesize, but it can still be off by 5%
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      At least 1K hands for a decent samplesize


      Hands or games?
    • rowzee
      rowzee
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2008 Posts: 151
      It's not easy to play when I'm leaking money like a regular fish. I'm down to 4% in ROI over 467 games, the past few sessions have ranged between -30% to -60% ROI per session. I can't really tell if it's just extremely bad luck (my aces have been cracked 6 times in a row now, I loose all my decisive 70:30's, 60-40's and coinflips in the endgame, fishy callers with crazy ranges send me home when I push from the SB etc.) or is it something more. Also, what's with the nits on Titan? I mean, most of the time when the blinds rise to 100-200 there are still 7-9 players around which doesn't make it any easier.
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      yh lmao!!! On ipoker they are such nits! I played a 30 man turbo 1.20 SnG and the blinds were 100/200 and there were 24 people left!! I was like OMG!!! Nit-a-ments
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by Tim64
      At least 1K hands for a decent samplesize


      Hands or games?
      games :)
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I can't really tell if it's just extremely bad luck (my aces have been cracked 6 times in a row now


      I know it's time consuming and the temptation is to play through your downswing (assuming it is a downswing) but, honestly, the only way to find out whether it is extreme bad luck or if you are misplaying some hands is to post them on the forum.

      With your Aces, for example, if you did anything other than push all-in preflop (e.g. if you slowplayed them) you are more likely to get them cracked.
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      dodge bulshit rake... any profit is profit...and you are making one...

      where is problem?