Rigged poker or just very bad luck

    • bodutzu
      bodutzu
      Silver
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 93
      idk if its a coincidence or online poker is really rigged but after wining about 5 SnGs yesterday, today i've lost alot of money cuz of the bad beat. I mean... i was eliminated from sngs from purely bad luck and it was always a straight who beated me.... every single time... I go all in with KK , another guy calls me with his crappy A7 and he wins with a straight , 7 to jack, i go all in on the flop with two pairs K and J, and he wins with a straight , 9 to K. And it was like this all day untill I lost almost all my bankroll.
  • 48 replies
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Seems like you're going all in too often. I only go all in if I..

      A) have the nuts.
      B) know the other player(s) are bluffing.
      C) on tilt.

      Online poker isn't rigged. Some days you'll just have your wins and you'll have your losses, the deck isn't always consistent towards you, one day it may appear to be your friend and the next it's giving you aces up and having you lose against two pairs deuces and 7's.
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      You will never notice when you get lucky against opponents but you are sure to work it out when they get a two pair on the river to beat you aces. It's part of the game, if you can't take it don't play it.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      If you won 5 SnG's one day and almost lost your whole bankroll the next, this really sounds like zero Bankroll Management. Go to the strategy section and read up on it I suggest.

      As for online poker being rigged - it's not. People get sucked out on all the time, because that's what we notice. We don't notice all the other times where the best hand actually holds up.

      You must make it clear to yourself that these things happen every now and then.

      You can also post the hands in the sample hands forum if you haven't done that yet. It's a great way to improve.

      Good luck in the future.

      Regards,
      Kimber88
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Uuum two days ago I lost two AA preflop all ins to I not very strong hands and a KK preflop all in to a 9Ts. I also won a preflop all in with JJ vs AA. I hit a straight 7 to J. All of this happened in around 65 hands. Yesterday I was up $20 in 5 hands on 2 SH tables. First hand I had KK preflop, the other guy had AA and I made a set. The second hand I made a full house with KJ preflop to a guy with the nut flush. In 5 hands.
      That's called variance and it's due to the element of chance involved in poker and card games. Get used to it or save yourself the money and quit.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      What site do you play on? Some sites are definitely rigged more on different forms of poker than others.

      If you've ever played low limit RAZZ MTTs on Pokerstars, you'll find they're one of the most rigged games in internet poker.
    • bodutzu
      bodutzu
      Silver
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 93
      I won 5 Sng on 2$ + 40c buy-in. It seemed pretty easy. After i got to know the players better it was a piece of cake. So i thought , why not go to another level. So , stupid me, i went to the 10$ buy-in . I lost once, i said to myself "hey it was bad luck, sometimes it happens." I played again, the same story. I started getting a little tilt, i went down a level to 5$ buy-in .. the same story.. Anyways , i guess u guys are right. Rigged or not, thats poker.
      Im playing at Absolute poker ( not cuz i want to, i just got a free bankroll there).
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Originally posted by bodutzu
      I won 5 Sng on 2$ + 40c buy-in. It seemed pretty easy. After i got to know the players better it was a piece of cake. So i thought , why not go to another level. So , stupid me, i went to the 10$ buy-in . I lost once, i said to myself "hey it was bad luck, sometimes it happens." I played again, the same story. I started getting a little tilt, i went down a level to 5$ buy-in .. the same story.. Anyways , i guess u guys are right. Rigged or not, thats poker.
      Im playing at Absolute poker ( not cuz i want to, i just got a free bankroll there).
      Not rigged my friend. Just get it out of your head.

      I wouldn't trust Absolute Poker with any of my information though. Concidering the lack of trustworthyness they have had before I'd not play there. But still, the software isn't rigged.

      And as I expected you broke the most important rule in poker BRM. Don't ever think you have beaten a limit because of a small lucky streak. Keep working on your game and use all the help you can get on this site. Then you'll get back on your feet for sure :)

      Regards,
      Kimber88
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      I often wonder why people are so 100% certain that poker isnt rigged.

      The argument that the sites have nothing to gain from rigging games actually doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Yes if they were caught then things would be bad for them, but thats the whole point. WHOS GOING TO CATCH THEM.

      It was only through sheer luck and persistance from one person that they managed to uncover the Ultimate Bet scandal.

      The person who first said that something was wrong was laughed at, ridiculed and told the very same thing "POKER SITES HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM RIGGING POKER" Well clearly they were wrong werent they.

      Have you ever looked at MTTs and seen how often there are just the right amount of players to make up the numbers. If its a $10 buy in with a guaranteed payout of $1000 how often do you see only 80 players and the site risks losing $200. It never happens... They always reach the minimum numbers required to cover their payout.

      Is it not possible for the poker sites to create players who dont actually exist and put them into the game to make it look like there are the right amount. COuld they not use bots the same way that some players do...

      I am not saying that poker is definitely rigged. Far from it. However to dismiss the possibility is as foolhardy as those that say it 100% is.

      THere is little or no regulation in poker barring sites telling you that they have their systems independantly audited. Who chooses who audits them ? THe sites of course, and who would the auditors report it to if they did find something wrong ? Who do auditors tell if they find something suspicious. As we found out with Ultimate, the so called independant auditors that Ultimate were using at the time actually went in favour of the site and said the site was 100% squeaky clean. They were lying as much as the site owners... WHY ?

      So for all those that claim poker definitely is clean, dont be so sure..

      As I said, I am not saying poker is rigged, but I am not stupid enough to believe that its beyond the realms of all possibility that it is as clean as the sites tell us it is.
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      Originally posted by Kimber88
      Originally posted by bodutzu
      I won 5 Sng on 2$ + 40c buy-in. It seemed pretty easy. After i got to know the players better it was a piece of cake. So i thought , why not go to another level. So , stupid me, i went to the 10$ buy-in . I lost once, i said to myself "hey it was bad luck, sometimes it happens." I played again, the same story. I started getting a little tilt, i went down a level to 5$ buy-in .. the same story.. Anyways , i guess u guys are right. Rigged or not, thats poker.
      Im playing at Absolute poker ( not cuz i want to, i just got a free bankroll there).
      Not rigged my friend. Just get it out of your head.

      I wouldn't trust Absolute Poker with any of my information though. Concidering the lack of trustworthyness they have had before I'd not play there. But still, the software isn't rigged.

      And as I expected you broke the most important rule in poker BRM. Don't ever think you have beaten a limit because of a small lucky streak. Keep working on your game and use all the help you can get on this site. Then you'll get back on your feet for sure :)

      Regards,
      Kimber88
      Do you not see your blatant contradiction there.

      POKER IS NOT RIGGED - BUT I DONT TRUST THAT SITE BECAUSE ITS UNTRUSTWORTHY....

      And it was the software that ULTIMATE were using ( the same one now as ABSOLUTE ) that was rigged.
    • bodutzu
      bodutzu
      Silver
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 93
      In the online poker business there are millions of dollars in play. Dont u guys think that the ones who made the software are taking advantage of it? just a little bit? Im sure they do, and they are making thousands of dollars with it. It hard to stay clean when u can take advantage of it so easlily.
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      Originally posted by bodutzu
      In the online poker business there are millions of dollars in play. Dont u guys think that the ones who made the software are taking advantage of it? just a little bit? Im sure they do, and they are making thousands of dollars with it. It hard to stay clean when u can take advantage of it so easlily.
      Precisely.

      Theres that much money involved, that much competition, the temptation to just make an odd tweak here, or an odd tweak there to make your site more attractive, must be immense.

      Even a 1% swing in the sites favour could be worth tens of thousands of dollars. And as I said before, they choose who they get to audit their own sites. Whos to say the auditors are 100% reliable.

      This is why I am a firm believer in regulation to make it compulsory that any site offering online poker must be licensed and audited by a firm appointed by the regulatory body. Not one they can choose themselves.

      Thats like asking Turkeys to vote on whether there should be a christmas or not.
    • Sonydahaka
      Sonydahaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.06.2008 Posts: 392
      Believe me it's rigged!!!:P
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      we are missing a "poker rigged official forum"

      this is really getting old
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Exactly alejandrosh.

      Lol i still dont see what poker rooms get out of rigging... fishes get more money so pay more rake. YH OK. But good players who follow BRM move down and produce less rake. Its a viscious cycle...
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Dear God. Help me through this as I will now respond to this message even though it only deserves to be left in the dark. There's just so much bad stuff in it, that I have to. So please God, guide me through. Amen.

      Originally posted by fcumred
      I often wonder why people are so 100% certain that poker isnt rigged.

      The argument that the sites have nothing to gain from rigging games actually doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Yes if they were caught then things would be bad for them, but thats the whole point. WHOS GOING TO CATCH THEM.

      It was only through sheer luck and persistance from one person that they managed to uncover the Ultimate Bet scandal.
      Ok. So what do they actually gain? You forgot that part. Please specify here.



      The person who first said that something was wrong was laughed at, ridiculed and told the very same thing "POKER SITES HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM RIGGING POKER" Well clearly they were wrong werent they.

      Have you ever looked at MTTs and seen how often there are just the right amount of players to make up the numbers. If its a $10 buy in with a guaranteed payout of $1000 how often do you see only 80 players and the site risks losing $200. It never happens... They always reach the minimum numbers required to cover their payout.

      Is it not possible for the poker sites to create players who dont actually exist and put them into the game to make it look like there are the right amount. COuld they not use bots the same way that some players do...
      WHAT!!???
      Read through this yourself please, and concider whether or not you were okay when you wrote it?

      If poker sites actually put bots into tounaments, then who pays their entries to make the prize pool bigger? Do they take those money from other accounts? There still has to be money from every entry, so if there's bots, then there's money from them = the site should still pay. (Thank you God, for keeping my head close to cold through this)


      I am not saying that poker is definitely rigged. Far from it. However to dismiss the possibility is as foolhardy as those that say it 100% is.

      THere is little or no regulation in poker barring sites telling you that they have their systems independantly audited. Who chooses who audits them ? THe sites of course, and who would the auditors report it to if they did find something wrong ? Who do auditors tell if they find something suspicious. As we found out with Ultimate, the so called independant auditors that Ultimate were using at the time actually went in favour of the site and said the site was 100% squeaky clean. They were lying as much as the site owners... WHY ?

      So for all those that claim poker definitely is clean, dont be so sure..

      As I said, I am not saying poker is rigged, but I am not stupid enough to believe that its beyond the realms of all possibility that it is as clean as the sites tell us it is.
      :rolleyes:

      Kimber88 over and out.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Originally posted by fcumred
      Originally posted by Kimber88
      Originally posted by bodutzu
      I won 5 Sng on 2$ + 40c buy-in. It seemed pretty easy. After i got to know the players better it was a piece of cake. So i thought , why not go to another level. So , stupid me, i went to the 10$ buy-in . I lost once, i said to myself "hey it was bad luck, sometimes it happens." I played again, the same story. I started getting a little tilt, i went down a level to 5$ buy-in .. the same story.. Anyways , i guess u guys are right. Rigged or not, thats poker.
      Im playing at Absolute poker ( not cuz i want to, i just got a free bankroll there).
      Not rigged my friend. Just get it out of your head.

      I wouldn't trust Absolute Poker with any of my information though. Concidering the lack of trustworthyness they have had before I'd not play there. But still, the software isn't rigged.

      And as I expected you broke the most important rule in poker BRM. Don't ever think you have beaten a limit because of a small lucky streak. Keep working on your game and use all the help you can get on this site. Then you'll get back on your feet for sure :)

      Regards,
      Kimber88
      Do you not see your blatant contradiction there.

      POKER IS NOT RIGGED - BUT I DONT TRUST THAT SITE BECAUSE ITS UNTRUSTWORTHY....

      And it was the software that ULTIMATE were using ( the same one now as ABSOLUTE ) that was rigged.
      Damn. I can't believe I have to tell you this since you're obv so well orientated and clever, but...

      Rigged poker:
      The cards that come out of the deck are predefined to favor some players over others.

      Ultimate Bet:
      Super user could see hole cards of other players - not control the cards coming out of the deck. That's hacked software - not rigged.

      So that is why I don't trust them, their system was (maybe still is, I don't know) unstable and was abused.

      Please get a grip of yourself now.
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      Oh dear Kimber88. It seems the idea of reasoned debate clearly passed you by during the night.

      You ask what the poker sites have to gain.

      Right. I dont know about you, but when I deposit at sites I am giving them my money. Now I dont particularly like giving them it, but however to participate in games then its kind of important that I do.

      Now Poker sites being a business ( you do know what a business is I assume ) like taking my money, however what they dont like doing is giving it back. Why is that ? Well perhaps its because as a business if they have to give money back then they dont make as much for themselves.

      Its whats called PROFIT. That is when their incoming amounts of money exceeds the amounts they have to pay out.

      Now supposing I were a unscrupulous businessman and could find a way to prevent people from getting the money that I should be paying them, then it would be in my interests to make sure that I utilised that to its full potential. Why ? Because if I am not giving them the money then I am keeping it myself, and when money is in my pockets and not theirs then I am running a much more profitable business.

      Are you with me so far, or do I need to go back and explain things a little clearer.

      Now supposing you decide you want to play in a game with 6 people but can only find four players. What is to stop me, as a businessman, taking that sixth place for myself PRETEND I have paid ( after all, its my business so the money all comes to me first before I pay it out ). I then play the game and I win. I have 5 lots of buy ins and guess what.. Its not cost me a cent. OK if you win then you get 6 lots of money and I lose. But lets look at win - loss ratio here. If I win I get all the money. If I lose then I lose one buy in fee. Quite a good gamble really..... 5-1 on my money... And I have the edge because I happen to know what your cards are because guess what.. The software belongs to me.....

      So you see, its perfectly feasible for me to rig things in my favour and not in yours.

      Now, I know what you are thinking right at this very moment.. You are thinking YES BUT IF YOU GET CAUGHT THEN YOU WILL LOSE YOUR BUSINESS..

      Well you see, I am a little cleverer than you think. Because what I have done is I have employed a firm of independant auditors ( well when I say independant, what I actually mean is I chose them myself, I pay them, and they report back to ME on what they find ). They check what I am doing and if they find something amiss they then come back to me ( not to you or anyone else ) and they tell me they have uncovered something strange going on ). What I choose to do with the information of course is solely up to me. I could of course be honest and tell everyone what the auditors have discovered, or I could be unscrupulous and dishonest and ignore what they have said and pretend they are in fact 100% happy with everything I do... Whos to know ? Whos going to report me ? Who do they report it to ?

      You also most probably think that rigging poker would kill off the game, ruin the business. Make online gaming utterly untouchable.

      Well that actually doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

      Horse Racing is always under the spotlight with accusations of cheating. Each year hundreds of jockeys, trainers, owners and bookies are fined for cheating. Whether it be jockeys not trying hard enough, taking bribes, doping horses, deliberately betting on their own horses, passing on tips..

      Does that kill of the horse racing business.. All these PROVEN cases of cheating. Have they made racing untouchable.. Far from it... Horse racing remains one of the most lucrative businesses in the world. Millions still take part every day of the week.

      A business KNOWN for its corruption and cheating, and yet still millions do it ?

      Fruit/Slot machines. They are notoriously rigged. As far from random as you can get. Everyone knows they are rigged. Where can you find a slot machine that doesnt make money ? You go to Vegas and find a slot machine empty with people stood by it saying "dont touch it mate, its rigged"

      So perhaps this goes to some lengths to suggest that online poker COULD BE ( note I said COULD BE and not IS ) rigged in favour of the site owners.

      Sites take extraordinary lengths to ensure that their members do not cheat. They have sophisticated software that detects when someone may have a tool that could work in their favour. So the people who play cannot cheat because the software the sites have is that advanced it can detect it. But that same software isnt capable of manipulating things in its own favour ??

      They say that ignorance is bliss. Well I am sure you are blissfully happy and I am pleased you are. However I would suggest you take your head from up your backside and look at the wider picture.

      Gambling is something that attracts cheats. It always has done. Whatever form of gambling you want to look at there are cheats and in many cases ( as proven ) the people running the operation are the biggest cheats of all.

      Amazing that horse racing, casinos, fruit machines, lotteries are all capable of it, but someone with a multi million pound empire is completely incapable of it...
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      Originally posted by Kimber88
      Dear God. Help me through this as I will now respond to this message even though it only deserves to be left in the dark. There's just so much bad stuff in it, that I have to. So please God, guide me through. Amen.

      Originally posted by fcumred
      I often wonder why people are so 100% certain that poker isnt rigged.

      The argument that the sites have nothing to gain from rigging games actually doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Yes if they were caught then things would be bad for them, but thats the whole point. WHOS GOING TO CATCH THEM.

      It was only through sheer luck and persistance from one person that they managed to uncover the Ultimate Bet scandal.
      Ok. So what do they actually gain? You forgot that part. Please specify here.

      ERM MONEY



      The person who first said that something was wrong was laughed at, ridiculed and told the very same thing "POKER SITES HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM RIGGING POKER" Well clearly they were wrong werent they.

      Have you ever looked at MTTs and seen how often there are just the right amount of players to make up the numbers. If its a $10 buy in with a guaranteed payout of $1000 how often do you see only 80 players and the site risks losing $200. It never happens... They always reach the minimum numbers required to cover their payout.

      Is it not possible for the poker sites to create players who dont actually exist and put them into the game to make it look like there are the right amount. COuld they not use bots the same way that some players do...
      WHAT!!???
      Read through this yourself please, and concider whether or not you were okay when you wrote it?

      If poker sites actually put bots into tounaments, then who pays their entries to make the prize pool bigger? Do they take those money from other accounts? There still has to be money from every entry, so if there's bots, then there's money from them = the site should still pay. (Thank you God, for keeping my head close to cold through this)

      Think about what you've just said there Einstein... Who holds the prize funds ? The poker sites of course. So they tell YOU how much is in the pot. If there are 900 entrants how do you know that they havent just made up the fact there are 901 entries and placed one entrant in themselves ?

      I dont know if you've noticed that the sites add on 10% to every entry fee.

      If a buy in is $10+1 then for every 10 entrants they have $10 for themselves to do what they like with. Perhaps they could decide to pay for an entry themselves making it 11 entrants. ( they dont lose anything because its a free entry for them ). If they win they get the lot. If they lose then it doesnt matter because you've paid for their entry anyway



      I am not saying that poker is definitely rigged. Far from it. However to dismiss the possibility is as foolhardy as those that say it 100% is.

      THere is little or no regulation in poker barring sites telling you that they have their systems independantly audited. Who chooses who audits them ? THe sites of course, and who would the auditors report it to if they did find something wrong ? Who do auditors tell if they find something suspicious. As we found out with Ultimate, the so called independant auditors that Ultimate were using at the time actually went in favour of the site and said the site was 100% squeaky clean. They were lying as much as the site owners... WHY ?

      So for all those that claim poker definitely is clean, dont be so sure..

      As I said, I am not saying poker is rigged, but I am not stupid enough to believe that its beyond the realms of all possibility that it is as clean as the sites tell us it is.
      :rolleyes:

      Kimber88 over and out.
    • Tklimas
      Tklimas
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.01.2009 Posts: 87
      Originally posted by SheepMoose

      A) have the nuts.
      B) know the other player(s) are bluffing.
      C) on tilt.
      the first point is impossible :)