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[NL5] AQo in blind vs blind

    • hanusmarek
      hanusmarek
      Gold
      Joined: 10.05.2012 Posts: 128
      Hello guys, Villain is 20/19 with 23% 4-bet stat after 900 hands. What do I do here?

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.02 (100.4 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.31 (106.2 bb)
      UTG: $5.25 (105 bb)
      MP: $6.08 (121.6 bb)
      CO: $4.51 (90.2 bb)
      BTN: $2.69 (53.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with :Qs: :Ah:
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.40, SB raises to $1.20, Hero calls $0.80

      Flop: ($2.40) :As: :Kh: :2h: (2 players)
      SB bets $1, Hero calls $1

      Turn: ($4.40) :8s: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks

      River: ($4.40) :9c: (2 players)
      SB bets $2.82 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.82
  • 20 replies
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      I don't see many bluffs here but it's hard to fold AQ, moreover after he checks turn. (Not that they can't stupidly check pretty much anything turn though.)
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Gold
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,181
      "23% 4bet stat" is out of context. if villain has a sb open of about 45% and defends by 4betting a lot then you've flopped the nuts and should have an easy stackoff because villain's range is too wide otf.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      Indeed but it's hard to open 45% from SB while being 20/19 on more than 900h though.
      (I said hard, not impossible. Some people are so unbalanced it's important to look at the position stats when we can.)
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 292
      Agree with Tomaloc. 23% 4bet range is ridiculous, it looks like a VPIP stat, and a loose one.
      I'm wondering if go all-in pre wouldn't be the best against a villain like this, but I'll wait for other opinions.
      With TP and a back-door flushdraw (which is not worth much, I know) OTF you just can't fold. With 3.82 left, a 3bet shove is probably a good play.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Gold
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,181
      it's probably not an "easy stackoff" against the actual villain, just trying to raise the point that hero actually didn't provide meaningful information. the villain's 4bet sizing is also very interesting
    • hanusmarek
      hanusmarek
      Gold
      Joined: 10.05.2012 Posts: 128
      What information is meaningful, then?
    • Mozzek
      Mozzek
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2016 Posts: 1,164
      Too small sample to look at 4b and say its exactly this. NL5 aqo wont be good to call vs 4b imo. I think you got carried away here and used hud in a wrong way. Overfolding vs 4b wont decimate ur wr at nl5. As played i dont know as this spot is new to me. But the main point is preflop here.

      Btw villains 4b sizing is pretty good.
    • Sunrise1912
      Sunrise1912
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.11.2009 Posts: 418
      [quote]Originally posted by hanusmarek
      23% 4-bet stat after 900 hands. What do I do here?

      Shove preflop imo is the best play. You can flat sometimes your high pairs and play in position but here it would be very hard to continue to his aggression if you did not flop a pair.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      Shoving AQo pre here is just a spew. I don't even know if you think it's a value or a bluff shove...
    • Sunrise1912
      Sunrise1912
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.11.2009 Posts: 418
      Its a value shove. I am fine shoving AQo here all day long vs guy with 23% 4bet out of 900 hands. Will do the same with JJ
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 992
      Originally posted by hanusmarek
      Hello guys, Villain is 20/19 with 23% 4-bet stat after 900 hands. What do I do here?
      23% 4bet on how many situations? Thats very important to know.
      You can have for example 20k hands of this guy but he can have a 4bet percentage of 20% with 2 of 10 situations. So the 20k hands wouldnt be an indicator.

      If he is really 4betting 24% on a ok sample size then I would probably just shove preflop. But otherwise this hand is a easy fold. Call rather with low-suited connector as with AQo.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      Originally posted by Sunrise1912
      Its a value shove. I am fine shoving AQo here all day long vs guy with 23% 4bet out of 900 hands. Will do the same with JJ
      If you think you're valuing something here against a 20/19 guy with 24% 4bet then you are not understanding how his 4betting range is made.
      Hint : if he open 30% from SB, he's 4betting with roughly 7% of the total range, and that makes mainly hands crushing you that will call your shove, completed by some hands you're ahead of but that will fold to your shove. Hence a totally stupid shove.
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 992
      If Villain calls only with KK+ then you can shove pretty wide. :-D
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish
      If Villain calls only with KK+ then you can shove pretty wide. :-D
      Even in this weird case AQo is far from the first hand to bluffshove with.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,489
      So a 23% 4bet.

      Meaning that every time he faces a 3bet, he will 4bet 23% of the time? Or is that his 4bet range? I doubt that. Is that positional stat or overall?

      Anyway, the sample size is small even for an overall 4bet stat. Especially if this guy opens tight and people 3bet him tight. This could easily be a sample of 2/9 or something like that. Doesn't tell us anything yet.
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 992
      Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish
      If Villain calls only with KK+ then you can shove pretty wide. :-D
      Even in this weird case AQo is far from the first hand to bluffshove with.
      But its +EV because villain is folding to much. You can just reshove your range and print money and deny equity. Calling some hands makes only sense if he knows how to play postflop in a 4bet pot.
      It makes no sense in my opinion for a NL5 player to figure out how to play 4bet pots postflop there are a ton of other things that are much more important.
      4bet pots occure just not often enough.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Platinum
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 3,216
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish
      Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish
      If Villain calls only with KK+ then you can shove pretty wide. :-D
      Even in this weird case AQo is far from the first hand to bluffshove with.
      But its +EV because villain is folding to much.
      Sure. You have created a virtual spot (show me a real tag reg that 4bet/fold QQ-AK BvB please) in which villain overfolds so much that we can more or less bluffshove range. Congratulations.
      Now I live in real life and I was talking with a guy that was clearly saying he was thinking AQo was a shove for value, on which I disagree.
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 992
      It was just an example .... On average on NL5 he can just fold everything vs. a 4bet except KK+ lol.
    • OrigamiPoker
      OrigamiPoker
      Silver
      Joined: 27.10.2018 Posts: 66
      I don't like the call pre and I don't think shoving is very good either so I would fold pre. I would think the 23% is an overall 4bet percent rather than a 4bet range which would be a considerably lower figure.
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