SnG grinding is it possible at low limits?

    • amea
      amea
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2008 Posts: 20
      Hi,
      I used to play the $6.50 SnG turbos on Stars and Full Tilt and wasn't very good with dealing with the downswings and often went on tilt. So i decided to start again... Having deposited $100 into stars I climbed up to $300 playing the $1.75 turbos and a few $3.40 and then when went to play exclusively $3 &$6 and crashed back now I seem to be stuck again around $200. Part of me wants to add more cash and get a bankroll to handle the swings and part of me is enjoying the grind. Anyone have advice?
      BTW check this out lol
      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.50+$0.25 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      MP (t1330)
      Button (t4730)
      Hero (SB) (t2050)
      BB (t1470)
      UTG (t400)

      Hero's M: 45.56

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
      UTG bets t90, 1 fold, Button calls t90, Hero raises to t510, 1 fold, UTG calls t310 (All-In), Button calls t420

      Flop: (t1450) 4, 4, 10 (3 players, 1 all-in)
      Hero bets t1540 (All-In), Button calls t1540

      Turn: (t4530) 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

      River: (t4530) Q (3 players, 2 all-in)

      Total pot: t4530
      Main pot: t1230 between Button, Hero and UTG, won by Button
      Side pot 1: t3300 between Button and Hero, won by Button

      Results:
      Button had 10, 4 (full house, fours over tens).
      Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
      UTG had K, K (two pair, Kings and fours).
      Outcome: Button won t4530
  • 11 replies
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      low limits are best to grind because bad players... you winrate will be higher
    • Andjing
      Andjing
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,240
      Sure its possible, you just need a little patience and elephant skin to handle the swings. I started out with my free 50$ at mansion at the 2$ turbos and made my way up to a roll of 900$ in about 3 months playing SNGs exclusively. So yeah, its certainly possible.

      Edit: Also make sure you keep posting hands, visit coachings and read new articles, books etc.. The best way to build your roll is to improve your play ;)
    • AquamanBT
      AquamanBT
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 338
      I have been doing my numbers on whether it's possible to earn a living playing the micro limits sng's, and it looks uphill for me. Although the level of play is very easy, according to my stats in $3+.4 sng's I would have to play an absurd amount of tourneys per day in order to live exclusively on this. Taking in consideration that my stats would probably go a little down because of mental and physical exhaustion, I would need to play 300 micro-stakes tourneys PER DAY for me to earn enough for my family to live exclusively from poker. This means that I would need to 30-table for 10 hours a day in order to accomplish this, which is sick. I am not taking into consideration any bonuses or rewards that I would receive for playing this ridiculous amount of tourneys, which could help increase my earnings.

      Of course, this depends on how much you expect to win per month. I assure you it's possible to earn between $11 to $13 an hour by just 10-tabling, and that it is very feasible.

      I have asked myself this question before, so I have started myself a similar experiment since earlier this week by 9-tabling the $3 +.4 non-turbo in Stars. I can't log too many hours a day playing, but I'll let you know in some time how profitable could this be. Rake is gonna kill me, since there is no rakeback in Stars, but playing on a Mac I don't have much choices. I am hoping at least to get something back from their Battle of the Planets promotion.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      With enough willpower & practice - even low limit grinding can be profitable. Just make sure you are avoiding the really high rake SNGs

      (for reference: boku87 sick propbet: $100 into 10k in 15 days) :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • AquamanBT
      AquamanBT
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 338
      I love Boku's thread. So sick. Can't imagine playing 50 tables for 10 hrs a day.

      I have a couple of questions for SoyCD (or any of the moderators or experienced players). If you are grinding, you are going to be cashing out a big part of your earnings at least every two weeks, so moving up limits as he did would not be advisable for good BRM, right? Or are you supposed to move up limits and move back down after the cash out?

      Also, in my recent experiment what I've been doing is playing sets of 9 stts instead of playing them in succession. My impression is that this has allowed me to concentrate better on the bubble and end game where it matters the most. Of course, several times you get either sucked out early or lose a coin flip, so the amount of active tables drops down. It is not as if you're playing in the bubble 9 sng's at the same time (although that would be awesome). Would you agree with my perception or would you suggest me to enter a new tourney as soon as I get busted from one?

      I am keeping very detailed stats that I will round to the closest whole number. I get to the bubble in 65% and ITM in 44%, ROI of 23%. For all the cashes, 40% is for 1st, 30% for 2nd and 30% for third. These numbers represent all my play in the $3 stt's (607), including when I started at this level and several turbos, in which I didn't do well. In the last three months though, my ROI has gone up to 34%.

      I still don't understand why I'm a losing player at the $5's, with ITM of 32% and ROI of -22% in 140 sessions. It's not as if the opposition is that much better. This is why I've opted for increasing the amount of tables at the $3's. It's a slower progress, but forward nonetheless.
    • RavForenzo
      RavForenzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 293
      with regard to cashing out and starting again..i'd say, why bother? What you really want to be doing is achieving a bankroll through strict BRM that you are happy can take you through the good times move up the levels until you find you are losing too often (just return to a comfortable level), and cash out profits from the higher level if you wish, but maintain enough security to battle through a tough downswing.

      That's what I intend to do. There's no point grinding away for weeks on the low levels, to get to $300 and then take out $200 and start all over again!
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by RavForenzo
      with regard to cashing out and starting again..i'd say, why bother? What you really want to be doing is achieving a bankroll through strict BRM that you are happy can take you through the good times move up the levels until you find you are losing too often (just return to a comfortable level), and cash out profits from the higher level if you wish, but maintain enough security to battle through a tough downswing.

      That's what I intend to do. There's no point grinding away for weeks on the low levels, to get to $300 and then take out $200 and start all over again!
      ²
    • TTT241
      TTT241
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2008 Posts: 452
      I would advise build your roll, but do not skip levels to fast (e.g. I cashed out most of my $3.4k tourney win).

      When you have confidence you can beat the level - move up... ad see where you are ...

      Do not make mistake staying on level you cannot beat.

      Regards

      TTT
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi guys,

      @amea: Short answer - It is profitable.
      Long answer - Hell yeah its profitable.

      @AquamanBT: Once you are cashing out regularly you should have a huge amount of buyin's for your current level anyway. So it won't harm your roll to withdraw. If you have to move down the limits everytime you cash out, then you are loosing value. If you are planning on making regular cashouts and playing pro/semipro, then you want 200 buyins at the very least, I use 1500 buyins on my main account. You want to be able to handle the swings, and still be able to withdraw your "wages/needed money" when on a bad swing. So it's like a reserve so you can handle months of bad swings with no winnings.

      Regards,
      Stiev
    • AquamanBT
      AquamanBT
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 338
      Thanks for your reply Stiev. LOL@ the long answer...

      Sometimes I feel dumb by playing stakes with over 200 buy-ins, but I will follow your advice then.

      The update on my 9-tabling experiment this week is as follows. In 110 tourneys ($3+ .40), my ITM was 47%, ROI of 35% and total earnings of $130. It's a little over $12 an hour. This includes a sitout in 9 tourneys because the apartment below mine caught fire and I had to evacuate my building. Although miraculously cashed in 7 of them, I missed an extra bonus for the Battle of the Planets promotion by 25 points. This could have been earned by just winning one of those 7. I hope to get that extra bonus this week.

      I also played 9 $5+.50 tourneys and ITM was 44%, ROI of 27% for total earnings of $13.50. These tourneys were considerably longer, well over 1 hr, so my earnings per hour were below the $3's.
    • NiekamNeidomu
      NiekamNeidomu
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2007 Posts: 307
      Originally posted by cannell555
      I use 1500 buyins on my main account.

      O.O;;;;;