This site uses cookies to improve your browsing experience. By continuing to browse the website, you accept such cookies. For more details and to change your settings, see our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy. Close

free time grinder needs help to improve in skill and especially in mental strength - restart from 0

    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello every one,

      i`m Talisker from the german community and need help in improve my pokerskills and even my mental game.

      I`m a part time grinder, having a fulltime job and two kids (4,5 years and nearly 3 years). So not really much time to invest in poker...
      But i like to play poker and i want to improve.

      Why this blog?
      I need some advise to improve and close as much leaks as possible (i have got a lot)
      I want to document my new approve to poker and challange my own.

      Actual i`m playing zoom NL10 (made a nearly 15k hands shot on NL16).
      I`m playing up to two tables zoom, but not more than 1,5 hour a day on average.
      So my first challange is playing 50k hands zoom NL10! (Not moving up => and hopefully no need to move down caused to BRM)
      That will last some month for me, but i want to improve and get better step by step and hand by hand.
      So i changed some thinks in my play and therefore i start(ed) from scratch with a new database, playing some hands during the last days.

      I like the vids made by weasel and try to get most out of them to improve my game.

      What are my biggest (known) leaks?
      mental game => chasing loses (moving up in limits), tilt, calling way too much vs. turn and river raises
      doing less theory, especially poker math....

      So that it is for the start.

      GL at the tables to you
      Slainte Talisker
  • 40 replies
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      This post will be used to document how my challange is actually:

      I will not post a graph after completing the challange, because sample is very small and variance very big.

      As i wrote i want to document my challange progress and i want to improve my game.
      So i will write about the thinks i`m going to do and hopefully i will get some constructive feedback if you think that is the right approach...

      Feel free to leave comments and even some advise what i could do next....
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 2,124
      Originally posted by Talisker74
      What are my biggest (known) leaks?
      mental game => chasing loses (moving up in limits), tilt, calling way too much vs. turn and river raises
      doing less theory, especially poker math....
      You dont need to be a math wizard to move up to NL100. But If you tilt like a monkey then you will never win.

      You must force yourself not to tilt. That can be pretty painful but without the discipline you will always lose in long run.

      After some time I started to understand how bad tilt is for my game and it became slightly better and better. Now my mindset is pretty solid. At least in terms of not to spew around or make tilt calls.
      You can scream at home or beat your table or insult your opponents in chat. Thats ok if it helps you not to spew your money away. :-D Just try to find your way.
      A ton of people will recommend you the book "the mental game of poker" but for me it was just waste of time.
      Try to play with 100% focus and try to observe your feelings while you play. I´m a former heads up hyper sng player and I went nearly ~3 times broke before my mindset was good enough for these games. In the beginning I have took also a lot of breaks between my sessions that was also very helpful for me.

      Maybe other people can give you also some ideas how to fix your mindset. good luck.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,400
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish

      You can scream at home or beat your table or insult your opponents in chat. Thats ok if it helps you not to spew your money away. :-D Just try to find your way.
      A ton of people will recommend you the book "the mental game of poker" but for me it was just waste of time.
      That was probably the most useful book I've ever read, poker or non-poker. But I guess it doesn't work for everyone.


      Originally posted by Talisker74

      So i changed some thinks in my play and therefore i start(ed) from scratch with a new database, playing some hands during the last days.

      Just remember that deleting the database doesn't delete the habits that built it.

      I'd suggest writing out exactly what you want to change from that old style of play, then you can keep track of whether or not the changes are sticking.
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 4,977
      Hey, noch jemand aus Deutschland. Schön (Hey, one more user from Germany, nice!)

      I can perfectly understand you with the mental game, I think that´s the biggest challenge for all pokerplayers. Odds, outs, equity, moves and bluffs you can learn but the mental game, that is really hard and many good poker players quit poker because they cannot handle the mental game.

      You say, go chase losses: What about a stop-loss-limit? Take only the amount of money to the tables which doesn´t bother you to loose. I recommend you a very conservative BRM. Even if this means beeing totally overrolled. But in this case a "stop loss limit" could be the solution for you?

      So when you start a session you take like 10 $ and say: "If I loose this, I quit the session". You immediately quit your session then and do your next session the next day. As part-time-grinder you don´t have to put in big volume.

      When you quit the session because you have reached your stop-loss-limit: Do something else! Do something nice and focus on "real life". The next day you start your next session with a fresh mind.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Global
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 917
      @Talisker74 When it comes to mental leaks there are many ways to do. Are they effective ? Yes and No because it depends of everyone's character , behavior , motivation to change ....
      What's good in your case is that you are already able to say you have mental leaks, many peoples cannot admit it and be honest to themselves.The other good point is that you can pin point your leaks wich is an other good thing.
      Now try to write down on a paper , blog or whatever works the best for you. What you feel when you on a downswing ? Why do you think you feel that way ?
      How often it occurs ? Do you feel it before it comes up or after your session ? If before how does it starts (Blurrry vision , Heart Racing, sweating , facial muscles getting rigid ? ... ) What can you do to overcome this ? (Short sight you can stop your session and do a break , but it's a patching solution not a definitive one )
      You can also try to write on a sticker what you shouldn't do when you get on Tilt since you exactly know what you overdo ...
      For a short run solution you can do breaks and stop playing when feeling the tilt coming , on the long run try to use the sticker and play a bit longer when on tilt then do a break , little by little increase that time and hopefully you will be able to deal with it better and better each time.

      Best of Skills & Luck @ Poker Tables,
      OldSchoolPapa.
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello guys,

      thank you very much to the replies. Today i`m a bit busy and have not much time to answer. I will do that (hopefully) tomorrow.
      If that will not work, it will be tuesday if i will answer to your comments.
      It is really great for me to get that much feedback.

      So GL at the tables so far.
      Slainte Talisker
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish
      Originally posted by Talisker74
      What are my biggest (known) leaks?
      mental game => chasing loses (moving up in limits), tilt, calling way too much vs. turn and river raises
      doing less theory, especially poker math....
      You dont need to be a math wizard to move up to NL100. But If you tilt like a monkey then you will never win.

      You must force yourself not to tilt. That can be pretty painful but without the discipline you will always lose in long run.

      After some time I started to understand how bad tilt is for my game and it became slightly better and better. Now my mindset is pretty solid. At least in terms of not to spew around or make tilt calls.
      You can scream at home or beat your table or insult your opponents in chat. Thats ok if it helps you not to spew your money away. :-D Just try to find your way.
      A ton of people will recommend you the book "the mental game of poker" but for me it was just waste of time.
      Try to play with 100% focus and try to observe your feelings while you play. I´m a former heads up hyper sng player and I went nearly ~3 times broke before my mindset was good enough for these games. In the beginning I have took also a lot of breaks between my sessions that was also very helpful for me.

      Maybe other people can give you also some ideas how to fix your mindset. good luck.
      Well i guess i will not become a math wizard, but i want to intregate some of the basic math into my game.
      I`m going to write about that next week, because this weekend i will not have much time.
      Due to my own challange (playing 50k hands NL10 zoom) i want to train my disciplin...
      I just know that tilting is very, very bad to my winrate but if it would be soooo easy to stop tilting i would not have a problem with it. :f_drink:
      But i know what you mean and i try to focus on poker during a session and try not to tilt...
      I`m going to have a warm-up for every session now and take short breaks during the session.
      Hopefully that will help me.
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Originally posted by bradomurder
      Originally posted by CptJokerFish

      You can scream at home or beat your table or insult your opponents in chat. Thats ok if it helps you not to spew your money away. :-D Just try to find your way.
      A ton of people will recommend you the book "the mental game of poker" but for me it was just waste of time.
      That was probably the most useful book I've ever read, poker or non-poker. But I guess it doesn't work for everyone.


      Originally posted by Talisker74

      So i changed some thinks in my play and therefore i start(ed) from scratch with a new database, playing some hands during the last days.

      Just remember that deleting the database doesn't delete the habits that built it.

      I'd suggest writing out exactly what you want to change from that old style of play, then you can keep track of whether or not the changes are sticking.
      Thank you for your comment.
      I startet reading the book, but i have it only in english and therefore some (many) words have got to looked up and translated...
      So i just can`t say up to know if that will help me....

      I did not delete my old database (just round about 25k hands) but i made up a new one....
      I have a document where i put in my "session" goals. For each session i open it and have a look at which thinks i focus at the actual session.
      So one think is focus at Steals and Resteals and overvolding vs. turn and river raises....
      And of course playing 50k hands nl10 without shot taking (due to tilt => chasing).
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Originally posted by Primrose6789
      Hey, noch jemand aus Deutschland. Schön (Hey, one more user from Germany, nice!)

      I can perfectly understand you with the mental game, I think that´s the biggest challenge for all pokerplayers. Odds, outs, equity, moves and bluffs you can learn but the mental game, that is really hard and many good poker players quit poker because they cannot handle the mental game.

      You say, go chase losses: What about a stop-loss-limit? Take only the amount of money to the tables which doesn´t bother you to loose. I recommend you a very conservative BRM. Even if this means beeing totally overrolled. But in this case a "stop loss limit" could be the solution for you?

      So when you start a session you take like 10 $ and say: "If I loose this, I quit the session". You immediately quit your session then and do your next session the next day. As part-time-grinder you don´t have to put in big volume.

      When you quit the session because you have reached your stop-loss-limit: Do something else! Do something nice and focus on "real life". The next day you start your next session with a fresh mind.
      Well thank you for your advise. I made my BRM still a bit more conservative...
      Setting a stopp/loss limit is a think i can implement, but it will be more than one stack. Because i set-up is possible at every time...
      I will try it out (starting with 3 stacks, so 30$)
      Would be not so easy to control, because i try just to focus on making bet possible decision during playing and not look at the results from the session...
      That is another leak i guess, not to focus really on the long run and paying too much attention to the short time results...
      A lot of work has got to be done...
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Originally posted by OldSchoolPapa
      @Talisker74 When it comes to mental leaks there are many ways to do. Are they effective ? Yes and No because it depends of everyone's character , behavior , motivation to change ....
      What's good in your case is that you are already able to say you have mental leaks, many peoples cannot admit it and be honest to themselves.The other good point is that you can pin point your leaks wich is an other good thing.
      Now try to write down on a paper , blog or whatever works the best for you. What you feel when you on a downswing ? Why do you think you feel that way ?
      How often it occurs ? Do you feel it before it comes up or after your session ? If before how does it starts (Blurrry vision , Heart Racing, sweating , facial muscles getting rigid ? ... ) What can you do to overcome this ? (Short sight you can stop your session and do a break , but it's a patching solution not a definitive one )
      You can also try to write on a sticker what you shouldn't do when you get on Tilt since you exactly know what you overdo ...
      For a short run solution you can do breaks and stop playing when feeling the tilt coming , on the long run try to use the sticker and play a bit longer when on tilt then do a break , little by little increase that time and hopefully you will be able to deal with it better and better each time.

      Best of Skills & Luck @ Poker Tables,
      OldSchoolPapa.
      Well thanks a lot for this advise, i will try to create a "tilt-profile" -> i read about in mindset article in german forum
      and i guess it is in "Mental game of Poker" as well an advise to do....
      So i will do that to the end of the year (a lot of other thinks have got to be done as well)
      So a lot of work has got to be done by myself and so little time to do it...
      I have got to structure the next tasks and give them priority on tuesday night when i will be in hotel again and have got time to do that first.
      I guess reading the book and making up a personal tilt profile will be top of the list i have to create.
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 4,977
      I think as free-time-grinder you don´t need to grind big sessions with tons of hands. You can quit your session anytime and do something else. Some recreational grinders even cash in a certain amont per month like 100 Euro and when this is lost then it´s lost and they won´t play this month anymore. You can think about depositing only a certain amount per month and see what happens. Take an amount which "doesn´t matter" and you can easily afford to loose. You are not under pressure, you don´t wanna build a BR in 3 months or so, you an take it easy.
    • pizdunar
      pizdunar
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2014 Posts: 140
      Thanks guys for such good advice, it helped me as well not just OP. Nice to see so many people coming to help a guy out, great community.
    • OldSchoolPapa
      OldSchoolPapa
      Global
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 917
      @pizdunar We are all somewhat on the same boat in a way or an other so it's better and more productive to help out each other.
      Also agree, there's a great community of players around :f_thumbsup:
    • Primrose6789
      Primrose6789
      Silver
      Joined: 01.07.2016 Posts: 4,977
      Originally posted by OldSchoolPapa
      @pizdunar We are all somewhat on the same boat in a way or an other so it's better and more productive to help out each other.
      Also agree, there's a great community of players around :f_thumbsup:
      This! :s_thumbsup:
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello everyone,

      thank you for the good advise. I try to implement some things in my game.

      @Primerose: I try not to deposit anything in poker. My goal is to let my current bankroll slowly growing, so that i can afford to play current limit for a long time (more than 40 buy ins are available) and if it goes up, i will move up. Plan is to let bankroll grow or invest the winnings in coaching or software if i guess it will help me.

      The good news are, if i will loose my currecnt roll, i could afford to deposit a new one which allows me to stay at NL10:f_drink:
      But that is not the plan. The plan is to improve in mental strength and in skill.
      That will let my bankroll grow in the long run. Therfore i will challange myself to get i guess how my current winrate is (zu mindest wie sie annähernd ist).

      So next post will be about tagging my opponents as quick as possible, even if the zoom-pool is quiet big.
      More about this will follow tonight.

      GL at the tables
      Slainte
      Talisker
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello together,

      i managed to play 10% of hands i want to play for my own challange:

      So time to discuss some poker related topics, which hopefully help to exploit villains during the game.
      I want to color my opponents very quickly during the session, even if the zoom pool is quiet big.
      So i use this system to do that:

      Some tags can be set immediatly within the first hand.
      What do you think abaout this system?
      How are you are marking your villains?
      Any questions to my system?

      In ths past i did quiete little reviewing my hands. I try to do more.
      When doing a ssession review i focus on all pots > 50bb to mark the hands after watching again in... And of course i review the hands i noted during playing.
      I use these term to mark them:

      What do you think about using this system?
      How are you doing reviews?

      Thanks for reading and (hopefully) dropping a comment.

      GL at the tables
      Slainte
      Talisker
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello guys,

      i just about my game and how i could improve and decided to make a switch from zoom back to the regular tables.
      I guess playing just 2 regular tables instead playing 2 zoom tables will help we to focus more and take more time before acting.
      Even sample to opponents will increase.
      I just played on session so far and made up the first conclusions.
      1. you have got to table select and will be able to find easyly tables with at least one weak player
      2. Tables brick quickly after the weakest player is leaving
      3. On regular tables the recreational players are weaker than the recreational players in the zoom pool.
      4. More showdown are seen => so better understanding due to the ranges are played

      So i will play 2 regular tables NL10 sh for the rest of the year. End of december i will make my goals for poker to next year and write them down to the blog.

      So far my goals for december:
      - playing 2 regular tables NL10
      - make a warm-up before the session
      - make session reviews and mark every hand played with a win or loss = 50bb

      GL at the tables to you

      Slainte
      Talisker
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello guys,

      short update.
      I missed out to make a small warm-up before the session yesterday. That shows me i have got to work more on my dicipline.
      But i`m proud just playing 2 regular tables of NL10 since i switched to regular tables.
      It is very good for my mindset and seems to be quiete "easy going to play". That does not mean that i`m crushing, but i feel confident and play very often my A or B game. So i will continue that during this month and see what will happen.
      Here a hand which so would never been played at the zoom tables. Could you guess which hand villain is shoving here => I marked him as a weaker player before this hand.
      My thoughts to the hand:
      Standard open from CO => call that minraise because of price and playbility
      Flop is really nice, i have a FD and still a week midpair. So contibet with 2/3 pot for value and protection.... (would be nice to see villain fold here)
      Turn brings me some small additional value, because i have a gutshot now and still second pair
      Villain bets very small and i can call that eaysily.
      River is really nice for me, because of making the straight and having the nuts and villain is so kind to shove....


      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $12.55 (125.5 bb)
      BB: $10.40 (104 bb)

      So GL at the tables for you, with even such nice villains as this one :f_drink:
      Which hand does he have?

      Slainte Talisker
      UTG: $19.72 (197.2 bb)
      MP: $10 (100 bb)
      Hero (CO): $12.44 (124.4 bb)
      BTN: $10 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with :7c: :8c:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.15

      Flop: ($0.85) :Kc: :4c: :8d: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.41, BB calls $0.41

      Turn: ($1.67) :5s: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

      River: ($2.87) :6d: (2 players)
      BB bets $8.99 and is all-in, Hero calls $8.99
    • Talisker74
      Talisker74
      Silver
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 1,485
      Hello guys,

      a small update. I still manage to play regular tables and leave zoom behind me.
      I guess that is a good decision even for my mindset.
      The only disadvantage is, due to the reason i have little time to play, the sample is really small and growing really slowly.
      So i`m not sure when i will have a decent sample from at least 25k hands.

      My personal goals to invest more time in theory and even warm-up is getting better, but not as good as i want.
      Here my results so far. (next graph to end of the year...)
      Played sessions:

      Graph:

      So as i wrote above, it will take time until i have a decent sample to search for leaks to fix and to say something realistic to my winrate...

      GL to you

      Slainte
      Talisker