Flush draw play

    • jpbothawyn777
      jpbothawyn777
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2006 Posts: 67
      I just want to know if i play it right or too agressive. It seems to me that i loose more than i win.

      If u hold two suited hole cards and go to the flop, and there is 2 more suited cards. I usaly bet on the flop and turn. Firtly to maybe get the guys to fold and secondly to get more value (i'm sure thats what stand on the ur poker guides)

      Dont know if i read or understood this wrong but seems to me i dont hit the flush that often on the turn or river and loosing money that way.

      Thanks Jean-Pierre
  • 7 replies
    • Suicid0
      Suicid0
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2006 Posts: 2,113
      Flop bet/raise for Value against >=2 player.
      Turn c/c use Outs&Odds
    • Blinzler
      Blinzler
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2005 Posts: 7,456
      cant give general guidelines here, you have to do this case by case => post sample hands!
      every situation in hold'em is unique and there are situations to bet the turn with a flushdraw and some where you shouldnt, as well as there are situations to just call your fd on the flop.
    • frib
      frib
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2006 Posts: 3,268
      This depends a lot on your position and - if there is one - where the preflop-aggressor is sitting. This is how I play it:

      If there is no preflop-aggressor and no one before you betted, you've got to bet to get more money into the pot.
      If anyone raises you, it's a matter of both your position and the strength of your Flushdraw (Nutflushdraw or maybe only a draw with 87s) what you should do.
      With a very strong draw it's more effective to keep other players in the hand, keep that in mind when you have to choose between reraise and call.

      If there is a preflop-aggressor, you have to decide between betting first-in. Do that if there are other players between you and the aggressor, the might get trapped if he raises. If the aggressor is the next one after you, it's probably -ev to bet, because a raise of him will confront the other players with 2 bets, they will fold more often and you lose money.

      Of course you must always have the odds&outs to play your hand, but a strong flushdraw usually has enough outs
    • Korn
      Korn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2005 Posts: 12,511
      Originally posted by jpbothawyn777
      I just want to know if i play it right or too agressive. It seems to me that i loose more than i win.

      If u hold two suited hole cards and go to the flop, and there is 2 more suited cards. I usaly bet on the flop and turn. Firtly to maybe get the guys to fold and secondly to get more value (i'm sure thats what stand on the ur poker guides)

      Dont know if i read or understood this wrong but seems to me i dont hit the flush that often on the turn or river and loosing money that way.

      Thanks Jean-Pierre
      This is almost always absolutely correct. The reason is that you have two ways to win: 1. You hit your flush 2. All opponents fold.

      That's why we call it a semi-bluff.

      Please study the following two articles carefully:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.org.uk/en/strategy/69/

      http://www.pokerstrategy.org.uk/en/strategy/77/
    • Kreatief
      Kreatief
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2006 Posts: 13,896
      Ok, here are some hands from me for this situation, as I also dont know if they are played correctly.

      One situation often appears: I bet the flop and bet the turn with my FD HU, as I read in a ps.de article to play the FD aggressivly (Semibluffbet on the turn), and I get often raised.


      1.

      PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

      Preflop: Hero is MP with Q:heart: , K:heart: .
      [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], SB calls, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color].

      Flop: (5 SB) 4:heart: , T:club: , 2:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], SB calls.

      Turn: (4.50 BB) 4:diamond: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], Hero calls.

      River: (6.50 BB) 5:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], Hero folds.

      Final Pot: 7.50 BB


      Played aggressivly on the flop, as I have two OCs and a FD. I would have played the turn b/c, here after the donk, just call.



      2.

      PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

      Preflop: Hero is Button with T:club: , K:club: . MP posts a blind of $0.75.
      [color:#CC3333]UTG raises[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

      Flop: (11.50 SB) 2:diamond: , J:club: , 3:club: [color:#0000FF](5 players)[/color]
      SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, CO folds.

      Turn: (7.75 BB) Q:spade: [color:#0000FF](4 players)[/color]
      SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], SB calls, BB calls, [color:#CC3333]UTG raises[/color], Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

      River: (15.75 BB) 3:heart: [color:#0000FF](4 players)[/color]
      SB checks, BB checks, [color:#CC3333]UTG bets[/color], Hero folds, SB folds, BB folds.

      Final Pot: 16.75 BB


      This is a special hand for me:
      Normally I would just c/c the turn. But here we have a FD and an OESD. This gives us 15 Outs. We will make our straight or flush 32% of the time at the river. So, I decided to bet, cause we have three other opponents which gives us a valuebet.

      Is that line ok? If not, why exactly, when can we place a valuebet with a strong draw?


      3.

      PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9:spade: , 6:spade: .
      UTG calls, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], CO calls, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], Hero completes, BB checks.

      Flop: (4 SB) A:spade: , Q:spade: , 4:diamond: [color:#0000FF](4 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], BB folds, UTG calls, CO folds.

      Turn: (3 BB) 3:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], [color:#CC3333]UTG raises[/color], Hero calls.

      River: (7 BB) 2:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, [color:#CC3333]UTG bets[/color], Hero folds.

      Final Pot: 8 BB


      This is the mentioned situation: I bet my FD on the turn as a semibluff HU and get raised.



      4.

      PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 8:spade: , 6:spade: .
      UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], Hero completes, BB checks.

      Flop: (5 SB) J:spade: , 3:club: , A:spade: [color:#0000FF](5 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], BB folds, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds.

      Turn: (3.50 BB) T:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP raises[/color], Hero calls.

      River: (7.50 BB) J:diamond: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, [color:#CC3333]MP bets[/color], Hero folds.

      Final Pot: 8.50 BB

      And again...



      DKT
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Everything all right here. I like all four hands.

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • Kreatief
      Kreatief
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2006 Posts: 13,896
      Ok, great! Thanks Stefan!


      DKT