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60 buy in lost in 475 games, is it normal in spin go $ 5.00?

    • miquins
      miquins
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 177
      hello,

      I would like to help someone who plays spin and go in pokerstars, last week I lost 60 buyn, in all in that I'm always ahead, no matter the hand, I was all in front, that I'm not counting the coolers. as I will demonstrate below, it does not matter if I have 80%, 60%, or 95% chance of winning, I always lose. I'm already afraid to play preflop against donkeis, because no matter the hand I always lose. it seems exaggerated but it seems that something is wrong. it is not possible, a whole week, day after day this happening.
      Anyone with experience in the $ 5.00 Spin can tell me if this is normal? see below an example, in the same tournament, this happens in every game is no exaggeration.
  • 15 replies
    • miquins
      miquins
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 177
      happened now, same tournament

      PokerStars - 15/30 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      SB: 22.67 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 12)
      Hero (BB): 27.33 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: J:spade:

      SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 2 BB, SB raises to 22.67 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 20.67 BB

      Flop: (45.33 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond: 9:club: 4:club:

      Turn: (45.33 BB, 2 players) 8:club:

      River: (45.33 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:

      Hero shows A:diamond: J:spade: (High Card, Ace)
      (Pre 65%, Flop 22%, Turn 14%)
      SB shows Q:diamond: 6:heart: (One Pair, Sixes)
      (Pre 35%, Flop 78%, Turn 86%)
      SB wins 45.33 BB

      PokerStars - 10/20 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (BB): 51.6 BB
      SB: 23.4 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 66.67, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:club: 9:spade:

      SB raises to 4.5 BB, Hero raises to 51.6 BB and is all-in, SB calls 18.9 BB and is all-in

      Flop: (46.8 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond: 5:diamond: 2:heart:

      Turn: (46.8 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:

      River: (46.8 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:

      Hero shows A:club: 9:spade: (One Pair, Nines)
      (Pre 58%, Flop 45%, Turn 61%)
      SB shows J:diamond: 8:diamond: (Straight, Nine High)
      (Pre 42%, Flop 55%, Turn 39%)
      SB wins 46.8 BB
    • Taroxus
      Taroxus
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2018 Posts: 26
      A 60 BI downswing is harsh, but not unlikely even for a winning player.

      That said, it's much more likely that you're a breakeven player that got hit by variance.

      I'm saying that because, well, most people are breakeven or slightly losing players. And unless you've worked on your game, it's very likely you're not playing spins correctly.
    • miquins
      miquins
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 177
      then you aha that I should fold AK, AQ, KK QQ JJ, against weak players?
      because I'm saying that I lost those 60 buyn co hand I was in front of. I can post them all here if you want.
    • miquins
      miquins
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 177
      which I want to know if it is normal to lose so many buyns in so little time being all ahead always. As for the game's anlize, it does not matter because I know I was ahead. What do I need to know if this is normal?
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 1,583
      Maybe you should post your chipEV/Tourney. If your EV is good then just keep going. Spin N Go variance can be very brutal. Losing 60 buy-ins is probably even not so much how you think for spin n gos. But just check your EV and checkout possible swings with this swong sim tool.
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 41,450
      Variance is nasty for sure in those quick format's with different pay-outs.
      I would be not surprised if the swings would be over 100 buy-inns as winning player.
    • Renmerb
      Renmerb
      Silver
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 186
      Check out this article from a couple months ago. https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/content/How-much-variance-is-there-in-Spin-Go-_104696/
    • Taroxus
      Taroxus
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2018 Posts: 26
      Originally posted by miquins
      which I want to know if it is normal to lose so many buyns in so little time being all ahead always. As for the game's anlize, it does not matter because I know I was ahead. What do I need to know if this is normal?
      Ok, fair enough. Try some 100's, when you have the time :)
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,910
      I think that article linked by Renmerb tells it all. While you could say a conservative bankroll management for cash games would be like 50 buy-ins, even 100 buy-ins at spins is not that much.
      So I would say that 60 buy-ins down in that sample is still totally normal.
    • Taroxus
      Taroxus
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2018 Posts: 26
      When facing a downswing do I:

      [ ] Blame it on variance.
      [ ] Question whether I'm beating the games.

      But in spins, option A is very easy. It becomes even more fun, when people understand that there's variance on chip-ev too. So now, we're never losing right?

      And that's how you sometimes get 70% regulars in the pool :)
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 41,450
      Originally posted by Taroxus
      Originally posted by miquins
      which I want to know if it is normal to lose so many buyns in so little time being all ahead always. As for the game's anlize, it does not matter because I know I was ahead. What do I need to know if this is normal?
      Ok, fair enough. Try some 100's, when you have the time :)
      Lol, You can better ask if you have the money for it to play the $100 games.
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    • anduke
      anduke
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2007 Posts: 458
      Not really sure what answer you're looking for here. That it's not normal and it's actually rigged? Go by your chipEV and keep working on your game. Of course, it sucks to have a brutal swing like that, but if you learn from it and keep working on your game, you'll be much stronger mentally when the next one comes.
    • Robodad
      Robodad
      Basic
      Joined: 17.02.2019 Posts: 1
      I play a lot of Spin and gos and spin and goes max. See the problem with spin and goes isn't just the variance hit when you get a bad run of cards and drawouts. Happens to every one every now and then. The double whammy with spin and goes is also the payouts. Even when you win, often you don't get rewarded for it because the payout is pretty much nil if you have to beat out a bunch of opponents (in the case of SnGMax) and still only walk away with 1.5X your buy-in.....or in regular spin and go only double your buy-in after winning a field of 3 players.

      Thats why variances are even bigger in Spin and Goes than just about any other type of game out there.

      But it sounds like you are getting it in there with best hands.....keep doing it. And when you do win that seemingly rare spin and go....the big payouts will hit soon. Don't forget, there will also come times in Spin and Go when the variance will pay you off faster than any other regular type of sit and go!!