[NL2-NL10] NL4 very bad river play

    • SCH1103
      SCH1103
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2007 Posts: 12
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy hand converter:

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $2.00
      CO:
      $5.00
      BU:
      $5.13
      SB:
      $6.17
      BB:
      $2.61
      UTG1:
      $4.96
      UTG2:
      $4.92
      MP1:
      $4.13
      MP2:
      $3.76

      $0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 5, 5.
      UTG1 calls $0.04, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, CO raises to $0.16, BU folds, SB calls $0.14, BB folds, UTG1 calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, MP3 folds.

      Flop: ($0.72) 8, 2, 4 (4 players)
      SB bets $0.04, UTG1 calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04.

      Turn: ($0.88) 4 (4 players)
      SB bets $0.04, UTG1 calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04.

      River: ($1.04) 8 (4 players)
      SB bets $0.40, UTG1 folds, Hero calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40.

      Final Pot: $2.24.

      Results follow:
  • 8 replies
    • SCH1103
      SCH1103
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2007 Posts: 12
      I calculated I need like 25% chance to win for the call to be profitable on the river.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Cant give either player credit for the 8, a 4 is possible but unlikely as well, im happy calling here. Only threat is CO holding 77.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello,

      Preflop: Don't limp, raise it up.
      Flop: OK.
      Turn: OK.
      River: I'd prefer to fold.

      Also add to full stack.

      Best regards,
      Rensu
    • SCH1103
      SCH1103
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2007 Posts: 12
      I don't get why I should raise preflop. I get great odds to call for a set. But I don't feel a small pair good enough for a raise : o
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SCH1103
      I don't get why I should raise preflop. I get great odds to call for a set. But I don't feel a small pair good enough for a raise : o
      Point is this, by limping:
      1) It will be very easy to recognize with what you are limping.
      2) The opponent makes more profit with it.

      Calculation:
      You hit: 1 of 8,5 times.
      No hit: 7,5 of 8,5 times.
      Opponent raises you to, lets say 5xBB (your limp+4xBB normal raise). On flop you mostly Check/Fold your lower PP after called his raise.
      Opponent loses (-5-8=-$13, $5 is the raise and $8 is the CBet what he needs to make on flop after you Check/Fold). Also you don't hit (you make $5 because from his raise).
      Why the opponent makes more profit with your limping?
      You hit: 1 time of 8,5, opponent loses -$13 (raise+cbet on flop), that means =1*(-13)=-$13. He loses $13 if you hit and CBet on flop.
      If you don't hit: 7,5 time of 8,5, opponent wins $5, =7,5*5=$37,5.
      Now we sum those two =-13+37,5=$24,5. In session our opponent makes =24,5/8,5=$2,88 profit.

      Hope you got the point, I am not really sure if I explained myself clearly. If you have any questions, you can ask.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Should point out that raising small PP from early - middle position is bad play with many short stacks behind. If you get any action you are flipping at best.

      Not that this applies in this situation. Can raise or overlimp here, mostly big stacks behind.
    • SCH1103
      SCH1103
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2007 Posts: 12
      Sry, I still don't get it. :/ Is there a strategy article or something about it? Silvers are good too, I will get the rank in a few days.: )

      All I know so far is, that small pairs are good to call a raise, if your stack is at least 20times the raise. Against 3 opponents I might have a chance that someone hits a tptk or 2pairs and win a stack, that's why it's ok to call. : o
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      If you raise you kick out people who are limping random hands (mostly). So you kick out alot of hands that can beat you with any random flop and create alot of equity for your hand.

      You also disguise your hand (most ppl give credit for 2 of AKQ for a raiser) and gain cbet rights. Most people with a premium hand like AK will 3-bet it so if an A/K high flop falls and you were PFA with 44, you can cbet and get alot of folds.