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[NL2] AA flop

    • Adelardo
      Adelardo
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2008 Posts: 1,770
      What is the right move here ?

      PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 24.43, PFR: 19.85, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 137)
      CO: 156 BB (VPIP: 16.34, PFR: 12.42, 3Bet Preflop: 3.64, Hands: 156)
      Hero (BTN): 98 BB
      SB: 109.5 BB (VPIP: 27.88, PFR: 24.04, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 108)
      BB: 90.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: A:heart:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

      Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 5:heart: T:spade: 4:club:
      BB checks, Hero bets 6.5 BB, BB raises to 13 BB

      Hero ?
  • 17 replies
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 952
      Dry board, no need to pot it. When fish minraises it’s probably set. I would probably fold and wait for better oportunity to take his money ;-)
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,959
      Yea I don't think there is a need to bet so big. On the other hand if villain is recreational he might not think about the sizings and will call a larger sizing if he has something.
      Against a minraise with AA I might still call and see what happens OTT. If we fold vs a minraise it basically means we are veryvery sure villain has got us beat.
      I think Oly0909 is half correct. Fishy players actually can be more aggressive than regulars, so "when fish minraises it's probably set" is not entirely correct in my opinion. However, when we face a raise on dry board texture I would be a bit more worried.
      But then again how dry this board really is? Sure it doesn't offer a flush draw but if we think about fishy guys calling range on BB vs BTN I think we could find some raising combos other than sets. 23s, 67s, A2-A3s with backdoor flush draw, some combos of JJ? And can we really rule out the possibility that he raises with some Tx hands?

      In short: It doesn't look good but I wouldn't fold vs a minraise.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 952
      @la55i I could be wrong but from my experience fishes don’t minraise draws. Either they raise bigger because they want you to fold, or they just call to hit their draw. Sometimes they do minraise with TP or even air, but after just 11 hands, I would still fold, and if I see he does it often then I would certenly adjust.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,498
      Originally posted by la55i
      In short: It doesn't look good but I wouldn't fold vs a minraise.
      This =)


      Fishes can minraise pretty much anything, includind draws, but let's be honest the type of draws they are incline to raise the most are not possible on this texture that is too dry for that. They can have TP or OP or else though. Call and reevaluate.
      Let's hope the turn is an A and then no worries :P
    • herrmutig
      herrmutig
      Gold
      Joined: 18.10.2018 Posts: 136
      I never bet pot in that situation. :P
      As played I'll probably call flop and if we are facing a huge turn bet, I'm folding. Folding flop might be fine as well we won't be exploited by doing so
    • jjpetruspoker
      jjpetruspoker
      Silver
      Joined: 12.10.2018 Posts: 17
      A lot of recreational players will min raise top pairs like KT and QT there, although I never can tell if they are doing it for value or what. It's a line that makes little sense, but one that I have seen very often at the micros. I think we should call this flop all day long and take advantage of playing in position to evaluate the turn card. Folding aces to a minraise on a dry flop is just super exploitable, and I would do it only with a strong read or vs a super 9/7 NITfish.

      I also agree with the others on the bet sizing, no need to pot such a dry board.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 952
      If everybody else would call flop then I guess I’m wrong here. So what are good turns and rivers for us (besides A) and what are bad? What we do against further 1/2 pot bets? 2/3 or 3/4 bets? How to reevaluate on turn and river?
    • Adelardo
      Adelardo
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2008 Posts: 1,770
      In fact, the result known, I thought I had to push here. May be the only manner to make fold that calling station at flop.

      He had QTo and hit his two pairs at the river.

      It is caracteristic of NL2. There is good players (better than me) and very large ones. So it is difficult to hit good spots while you have to fold preflop much decent hands. Large players limp or raise with anything and you cannot call them. You have to stay tight as possible I think. And good players wait for you anytimes.

      But I think it should be worst on upper limits.

      I have to work more and not to be disappointed. I had two good books for beginning.

      Joke : why is there no BRM problem in NL2 ? Because there is nothing under.

      I play between 50$ and 60$ thince one month. One day I win, the next I loose ..

      Another thing : i thank all posters for their answers. That help me. French forum is quite dead.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,498
      Minraising QTo against a pot here (which isn't a shameful sizing for you to take with AA imo) is probably stupid indeed, but just so you know, putting hands like AT in your raising range against a normal sizing is totally ok in fact, even if you'll have to check on a lot of turn cards, as explained in Janda's last book.
      People don't raise enough these spots, making life too easy for BU.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 952
      Originally posted by jjpetruspoker
      A lot of recreational players will min raise top pairs like KT and QT there,
      Nice read sir ;-)
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,498
      Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
      They can have TP or OP or else though.
      I read it too 8-)
      Well, if you count predicting anything as a read.
    • MLima1984
      MLima1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2015 Posts: 300
      Originally posted by Adelardo
      In fact, the result known, I thought I had to push here. May be the only manner to make fold that calling station at flop.
      (...)
      HepAnother thing : i thank all posters for their answers. That help me. French forum is quite dead.
      Hmm i dont agree with push OTF.

      Bonne chance pour toi 👍
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 1,075
      What about 3betting this spot?
      I'm wondering what hands I'd 3bet in this spot after poting and being min-raised. Should we 3bet only nutty hands (TT, 55, 44, 54s) or should we have some bluffs? Don't even know if we should pot sets/ DP here. Board is so dry, but I kinda like it to bet really big.
      It may look a bit weird but might induce some calls.

      About the BRM question: the rule that everyone is used to follow is 20-30 BI. I personally don't like that. It'll sound extremely conservative, but I've always used a 100+ BI bankroll. It gives me some kind of protection / safeness feeling and mentally helps my game, I don't really know why. Feel like I play with 0 pressure.

      I'm also curious about how players that make some real money at this game cashout their winnings. Of course this doesn't apply to most low stakes players, but there are some that still cashout some % of the winnings right? The rest contributes to grow your bankroll to allow shots at higher limits?
    • semiramiRNMD
      semiramiRNMD
      Silver
      Joined: 25.10.2009 Posts: 1,372
      BRM is not realy important for micros, your bankroll is not what you have in the poker client, but all the money you have, and most people will have very large bankroll for 2NL or 5NL. You dont need to "build", if you feel confident go higher, and if you don't stay where you are, doesn't matter what you have in the cashier. On higher limits BRM is very important and 100 BI is now the minimum, many proffessional players use more than that.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,959
      Board is so dry, but I kinda like it to bet really big.
      It may look a bit weird but might induce some calls.
      We have quite strong hand and villain looks recreational so I think the bet size is not that bad OTF.

      What about 3betting this spot?
      I'm wondering what hands I'd 3bet in this spot after poting and being min-raised. Should we 3bet only nutty hands (TT, 55, 44, 54s) or should we have some bluffs?
      Because flop raises are still a bit underbluffed, imo we don't have to worry about having a bluff 3bet range there. In this case our hand doesn't need that much protection either and I think by 3betting we could just isolate ourselves against those sets. I must confess that I'm not very good with the flop 3bet ranges. It is a very rarely used move at the micros . That is why when someone 3bets you OTF you can be quite sure that he has a very strong hand.

      It'll sound extremely conservative, but I've always used a 100+ BI bankroll.
      You do what feels best for you :) If having a 100bin bankroll helps your mental game, then it is a good idea to have that.

      I'm also curious about how players that make some real money at this game cashout their winnings.
      I used to cash out a % of my bankroll increase every month. Example: If I started with 1k$ and after a month I had 1100€, I cashed out 50% of the increase (50$). The next month I started with 1050$ and if at the end of the month I had 1100 again, I cashed out 25$ and so on. That way I was able to take some of the winnings but still keep on building the bankroll slowly.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,498
      3betting this flop is just isolating ourselves against sets. We have kind of way ahead/way behind his minraising range so better to call, we don't need to deny much equity.
    • MLima1984
      MLima1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2015 Posts: 300
      Btw i cashout alot, usually leave 10€ and start again.
      Poker is my travell's piggy bank and fishy players are generous donors 😁