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[NL2] Flush and straight draw - Over played?

    • GaspodeWD
      GaspodeWD
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2019 Posts: 39
      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $3.76 (188 bb)
      BB: $2.11 (105.5 bb)
      UTG: $1.66 (83 bb)
      MP: $4.95 (247.5 bb)
      CO: $2.31 (115.5 bb)
      BTN: $1.59 (79.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with :2c: :Ac:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.05, BB calls $0.03

      Flop: ($0.10) :7d: :4c: :3h: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.06, BB raises to $0.16, Hero calls $0.10

      Turn: ($0.42) :6c: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.31, Hero raises to $0.86, BB raises to $1.90, Hero calls $1.04

      River: ($4.22) :6h: (2 players)

      Results:
      $4.22 pot ($0.15 rake)
      Final Board: :7d: :4c: :3h: :6c: :6h:
      Hero showed :2c: :Ac: and lost (-$2.11 net)
      BB showed :2s: :5s: and won $4.07 ($1.96 net)


      Had 4 of this exact situation within about 100 hands. All of them i took a very similar line as i "felt" it was a good line, but not sure if maybe i am just overplaying my draws?
  • 14 replies
    • herrmutig
      herrmutig
      Gold
      Joined: 18.10.2018 Posts: 130
      Just call and realize your equity. Makes life easier. No need to raise the turn.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,168
      Yeah he has it you have no FE.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 12,147
      Agreed.
      To make a straight, you need a :5x: or a :Tx:
      If you don't have the required card, you have 3 outs max (to the straight) + however many flush outs and other outs you may have.

      The other comment I might make is that if you're going to raise first in from the SB, it is a good idea to avoid giving BB odds to call -- unless you're trapping, which isn't really useful at NL 2 (or at least I don't think so).

      All the best,
      VS
    • GaspodeWD
      GaspodeWD
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2019 Posts: 39
      Thanks for the comments all.

      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      The other comment I might make is that if you're going to raise first in from the SB, it is a good idea to avoid giving BB odds to call -- unless you're trapping, which isn't really useful at NL 2 (or at least I don't think so).
      Do you mean open raise larger?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 12,147
      [quote]Originally posted by GaspodeWD
      Thanks for the comments all.

      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      The other comment I might make is that if you're going to raise first in from the SB, it is a good idea to avoid giving BB odds to call -- unless you're trapping, which isn't really useful at NL 2 (or at least I don't think so).
      [b]Do you mean open raise larger?[/b][/quote]Yup exactly that.

      If you make it really cheap for him to call, he'll call.

      If you make it more expensive, you will steal the blinds -- and when you get the blinds with no flop, there is (usually) no rake, so the more you can do this and get away with it, the better off you are.

      All the best,
      VS
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 12,147
      Originally posted by GaspodeWD
      Thanks for the comments all.

      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      The other comment I might make is that if you're going to raise first in from the SB, it is a good idea to avoid giving BB odds to call -- unless you're trapping, which isn't really useful at NL 2 (or at least I don't think so).
      Do you mean open raise larger?
      Yup exactly that.

      If you make it really cheap for him to call, he'll call.

      If you make it more expensive, you will steal the blinds -- and when you get the blinds with no flop, there is (usually) no rake, so the more you can do this and get away with it, the better off you are.

      Check out this article:
      https://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/various-poker/basics-odds-and-outs/


      All the best,
      VS
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 902
      He could allready have set or straight on flop, so I would rather fold vs raise. Yes it’s small raise but can we play for stacks here even if we hit our gutshot on turn?
    • herrmutig
      herrmutig
      Gold
      Joined: 18.10.2018 Posts: 130
      I don't like playing for stacks here when we hit the gutshot, as we will only make a bad straight here...
      So I would fold OTF probably.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,168
      Folding that combo OTF is too weak. We are not mandated to play for stack if we hit our GS.
    • AnDoRPoKe
      AnDoRPoKe
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.08.2009 Posts: 6,113
      Call flop ok imo, but I would not raise turn, your FE is quite low as vilain raised on the flop. Just call and expect a good river.

      Also don't agree with VorpalF2f on bet sizing, vilains just don't give a fuck at sizing and pot odds at NL2 so 2,5bb is fine.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 8,909
      Yea, in reality players at the microstakes don't pay attention to the steal sizes. If the guy is BB and faces a raise, he plays the same ranges always. Even though he should significantly widen his ranges against a min raise compared to 3bb raise, he doesn't do that. The fact that they fold way too much vs smaller raises is actually good for us. We are risking less basically to win the same amount of money.
    • MLima1984
      MLima1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2015 Posts: 213
      I wouldnt go for the stack and wouldnt reraise OTT. We are the underdog here, with a chance of 25% to hit out hand . This is assuming a straight would win the hand.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,168
      It's precisely because they don't care about odds that we usually want to be bigger (we trust in our postflop edge and the rake is high so we want to build bigger pots). If not then just limp or minraise, but 2,5x is just the worse sizing from SB in my opinion.
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 761
      This is a hand I use as a check OTF often.
      His turn bet is good and puts you in a difficult spot. I think it is high variance to bloat pots after those flop raises without a hand at the micros.
      Not sure about calling either. Implied odds may be good for the river if we hit, direct odds are a bit off.