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[NL25] (NL16 not NL25 if this makes a difference xD) Bluff Spot BB vs CO?

    • herrmutig
      herrmutig
      Gold
      Joined: 18.10.2018 Posts: 130
      PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.08/$0.16 - 6 players
      Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

      UTG: $16.80 (105 bb)
      MP: $33.89 (212 bb)
      CO: $15.69 (98 bb)
      BU: $16.15 (101 bb)
      SB: $15.92 (100 bb)
      BB (Hero): $28.21 (176 bb)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.24) Hero is BB with Q J
      2 players fold, CO raises to $0.48, 2 players fold, Hero calls $0.32

      Flop: ($1.04) A K 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      Turn: ($1.04) 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.28, CO calls $1.28

      River: ($3.60) 8 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.58,


      CO calls $2.58

      Total pot: $8.76 (Rake: $0.39)
      Showdown:
      BB (Hero) shows Q J (high card, Ace)
      (Equity - Pre-Flop: 26%, Flop: 21%, Turn: 27%, River: 0%)

      CO shows J K (a pair of Kings)
      (Equity - Pre-Flop: 74%, Flop: 79%, Turn: 73%, River: 100%)

      CO wins $8.37


      Can I go for that Overbetting turn - Bet River line and are sizings fine? :f_eek:
  • 10 replies
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,168
      Interesting. You could also have 2ba "standard" but I like is like that, except I'd bet a little bigger OTT, you are supposed to go for 1,5 or 2 times the pot if you decide to overbet it.
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 761
      I'm thinking about check-raising turn. There's no such thing as 2nd barrel here floxy, flop went check-check :D
      If you decide to turn your hand into a bluff as you did, overbetting turn is the best, either by donking or check-raising. I don't know if we should donk or check-raise, but a mix strategy is probably ok. We obviously expect to fold out basically his whole range with the turn overbet, so 120% may be on the smaller side. Bigger is better.
      Now the river sizing... 8 is a blank card. I'd say you can make him fold Ax often, but apparently not against this villain.
      I've seen very few players raising turn overbets even with the nuts, but I'm curious to know what you'd do if he raises you OTR.
      For the record, I prefer to bluff this holding the :Ad: and in position.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 2,175
      I'd just bet turn smaller
      So we can rep weaker value hands too
      and make his call range wider let him call his TdXd etc.
      around 66% is fine
      And then river's the street to overbet afterwards

      We never need to play Ad the way you played it so this bluff combo is fine
    • herrmutig
      herrmutig
      Gold
      Joined: 18.10.2018 Posts: 130
      I don't know if we should donk or check-raise, but a mix strategy is probably ok. We obviously expect to fold out basically his whole range with
      I wasn't certain if he is going to bet with his weaker holdings OTT, so I thought in having a better chance to get him off of his 2nd pairish, weaker Ax hand by taking the lead, as he can easily just check this turn back. :f_eek:

      but I'm curious to know what you'd do if he raises you OTR.

      Fold I believe? I mean what can I dor with air when he raises the river? xD
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 4,168
      Originally posted by zetozinho
      There's no such thing as 2nd barrel here floxy, flop went check-check :D
      2ba turn river of course. There is such a thing you know ^^

      Check/raising after he checked isn't really effective. So better to do it oppa Lemon style. 8-)
      He knows what he's doing. He's back at NL2 and all. :P
    • zetozinho
      zetozinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2017 Posts: 761
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      We never need to play Ad the way you played it so this bluff combo is fine
      Can you elaborate? Why can't/shouldn't we bluff Adx here?

      Yep floxy, I'm now 4th barreling this days. It's super effective. 2 and 3rd barrels are for noobs :D
      I got you, but usually double barrel is used for flop and turn bets, although I admit I wanted to mess with you just a bit =)

      The flop check thing plays in favor of the donkbet, it makes sense indeed.
    • Mozzek
      Mozzek
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2016 Posts: 1,255
      I don't think we should be pushing aggression on this board much. Agreed with lemon about smaller sizing OTT. I am not sure if you should barrel this OTR. You block his folding range (QQ-JJ etc) and you don't block his new nutted hands that he hit OTT (eg K9).
    • Laci24
      Laci24
      Silver
      Joined: 07.10.2009 Posts: 6,185
      Originally posted by Mozzek
      I don't think we should be pushing aggression on this board much. Agreed with lemon about smaller sizing OTT. I am not sure if you should barrel this OTR. You block his folding range (QQ-JJ etc) and you don't block his new nutted hands that he hit OTT (eg K9).
      But Hero range contains 4 of A9s and all flush combos...
      I see that Hero has more flush on the river than villain can shows. So for GTO reason Hero needs bluffs there also, because he will make valubets on the river.
      I'd say when we make only valuebets on this river, then it would have been unthinking thing.
      Or can we think in this spot that villain has not enough sample size to exploits us?
    • Mozzek
      Mozzek
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2016 Posts: 1,255
      NL16 player won't exploit this. And if he would, there is no way he would have sample big enough to find out about our R tendencies. He should cbet this flop anyway, so he probably makes mistakes on later streets as well (therefore I wouldn't expect him to exploit me and feel no need to play gto). As I said, if you wanna bluff, it's better to pick 9x because you block his calling range (K9, 99 etc.) imo.
    • pokerboy198229
      pokerboy198229
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.08.2011 Posts: 1,696
      Im not sure about calling pre, but betting turn and river is definitely a fine play after he checked flop, but you have to know he might call you down because of same reasons