[NL2-NL10] NL5 FR: TT on KK8 board

    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Kind of a brag post, but just felt the need to share this one :)

      My pre-flop call on that reraise isn't according to the call20 rule but since I was 95% certain the villain was playing monster there (AA or KK, almost no one reraises pre-flop with AK on NL5) I knew that if I flopped my set I would almost certainly double up my stack.

      Anyway... flop brought something different: 2 kings. I scrap the pocket Kings of my list and just put him on Aces there. A few seconds later I more or less get confirmation when he bets out "only" 40c in a $1.35 pot. I think I know what he's playing there, I know I'm beat but I think I can bluff him out of the pot there, so... "let's represent AK here with a raise". He flat calls & checks on the turn... I play about 60% pot bet to represent my "AK", and after 10 seconds this appear in chat: TheOne2006 said, "yeah you are so lucky on this one" and he folds.

      "Aces?" - "Yeah and you had AK..." :D

      I'd say this is one of those hands that illustrates just how important position can be.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy hand converter:

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $5.50
      MP2:
      $6.06
      MP3:
      $6.93
      CO:
      $5.21
      BU:
      $7.46
      SB:
      $19.05
      BB:
      $5.31
      UTG2:
      $2.95

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with T, T.
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.2, SB raises to $0.65, BB folds, Hero calls $0.45.

      Flop: ($1.35) K, 8, K (2 players)
      SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1, SB calls $0.60.

      Turn: ($3.35) 6 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.80, SB folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $3.35.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, kings and tens (T T)
      Hero wins with two pairs, kings and tens (T T).
  • 7 replies
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Wow dude.

      You picked a good mark this time - the fact that he folded shows he is capable of considering what hands other ppl might have - but id be very careful trying this move often on micro.

      Most players on NL10 and below simply arnt capable of laying down aces, ever. In fact, most cant even lay down AK even if they only have air.

      Very dangerous line.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Did you have any stats saying how incredibly weak he was? If he was unknown, I would advice you to just fold on the flop. Small bets can often mean the nuts too, and this board is actually very bad for bluffing on against a 3bet, since it's paired.

      Regarding preflop I think it's fine to call there considering how deep you are, you almost get call 20. However, as you see here, you overestimated your implieds against this guy since he obviously easily could lay down an overpair.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by Fongie
      Did you have any stats saying how incredibly weak he was? If he was unknown, I would advice you to just fold on the flop. Small bets can often mean the nuts too, and this board is actually very bad for bluffing on against a 3bet, since it's paired.

      Regarding preflop I think it's fine to call there considering how deep you are, you almost get call 20. However, as you see here, you overestimated your implieds against this guy since he obviously easily could lay down an overpair.
      I don't think I overestimated my implied odds here. It's way easier to recognize trip Kings then it is to recognize a set of Tens. I'm pretty sure that if the board comes something like KT8 there and I bet out there he'll put me on TPTK and put me all-in.

      I do understand your concerns regarding this play. I'll definitely keep these remarks in mind next time I get into a situation like this. But quite frankly, I made this play just and only because the board paired here, because I knew I would actually have a proper chance to make the guy believe I was playing the better hand while I wasn't at all.

      I also definitely wouldn't have raised the turn... the fact that he checked there was just a signal for me that he knew he was beat, so I made a bet. If he just bets out there again, even for just 30% pot bet or something, I would've folded the hand.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello,

      Preflop: OK, we have position and TT is a strong hand. :)
      Flop: I often also reraise such minraises, they can also mean that the opponent wants to see a cheap turn card, for example flushdraw.
      Turn: Standard Bet because he showed weakness with his Check, I would still bet a bit more, ~$2.30.

      Best regards,
      Rensu
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Originally posted by Mstlc
      Originally posted by Fongie
      Did you have any stats saying how incredibly weak he was? If he was unknown, I would advice you to just fold on the flop. Small bets can often mean the nuts too, and this board is actually very bad for bluffing on against a 3bet, since it's paired.

      Regarding preflop I think it's fine to call there considering how deep you are, you almost get call 20. However, as you see here, you overestimated your implieds against this guy since he obviously easily could lay down an overpair.
      I don't think I overestimated my implied odds here. It's way easier to recognize trip Kings then it is to recognize a set of Tens. I'm pretty sure that if the board comes something like KT8 there and I bet out there he'll put me on TPTK and put me all-in.

      I do understand your concerns regarding this play. I'll definitely keep these remarks in mind next time I get into a situation like this. But quite frankly, I made this play just and only because the board paired here, because I knew I would actually have a proper chance to make the guy believe I was playing the better hand while I wasn't at all.

      I also definitely wouldn't have raised the turn... the fact that he checked there was just a signal for me that he knew he was beat, so I made a bet. If he just bets out there again, even for just 30% pot bet or something, I would've folded the hand.
      Alright veriz was upset because I folded this flop and I have to agree now that it is too weak to fold, however I don't like raising! If you were playing against me I could reraise you here on the flop with any hand I might have, because what you are representing by raising here is either a smallish pocket or a purebluff.
      Best play is probably calling flop and betting the turn if checked to. I have a hard time actually believing he had AA here because I would never EVER fold AA to this play :tongue:

      With that said, I know that veriz still disagrees with me and thinks raising is the best, so probably both plays are OK and you'll have to decide for yourself :D
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      call flop and fold unimproved on a blank turn. On such a turn, if you know he is such a nit you can raise a bet or bet if he checks. In that case you often need to barrel the river as well.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      Originally posted by Fongie
      If you were playing against me I could reraise you here on the flop with any hand I might have, because what you are representing by raising here is either a smallish pocket or a purebluff.
      Best play is probably calling flop and betting the turn if checked to. I have a hard time actually believing he had AA here because I would never EVER fold AA to this play
      well i guess your statement is based on reads and stats or if not can you explain why you would re-reraise him on the flop.

      on this limit and board yes it is very hard to fold AA vs one villain but what do you mean by "because what you are representing by raising here". Isnt it hard to raise with Kx hand. Raising for protection here instead of slowplaying is standard in my point of view. And calling with AA is +EV in the long term because many players on this limit will do this with FD. But still this is oponent based imo.

      on the other side if the cbet% of the villain is high personally i would reraise him with any hand on the flop. And this leads to the situation where your re-reraise will fold me, but still it is oponent and stats based.