# Logic behind calling on river when you suspect you're beat?

• Bronze
Joined: 06.12.2008
Hi,

I've been watching FL videos of terrorblade and cornholio, and during some hands that reached the river, where their hand appeared strongest on previous streets but now looks beat, they would still call and say it's a crying call, explaining pot odds and saying... "You're getting 1 to 12, so you only have to win 1 in 12" or something to that effect...

How does a player determine this? Sure, sometimes villain may be bluffing on river, but my questin is how do you determine your odds? Is there a rule of thumb? Eg 1 in 10/15/20? Do you guess? Best estimate?

I can't figure out what separates the times when you should fold to bet, c/f, b/c and c/c on river.
• 3 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 23.01.2008
Unfortunately the article on playing the river is silver, but once you get to silver it explains the reasons very nicely.

You do use a lot of best estimates based on what you think your opponent might have, whether you have seen him bluff before, how he played the rest of the hand, the way the cards have progressed etc.

c/f = you're basically hopelessly beat.
c/c = you cannot value bet (less than 50% of the hands that would call your bet will lose to you and you do not want to be raised) This can also induce bluffs from an opponent with a very weak hand, allowing you to win the maximum from him.
b/c = you feel your hand is good for a value bet and you will still win enough times when you call to justify the pot odds and to keep from being abused in the future.

Hope that's it, correct me if I'm wrong.
• Bronze
Joined: 25.03.2005
Hi Ejeckt,

I think BDL already said a lot important things.

If the opponent is passive then you need better odds like 10:1.
If he is aggressive 5:1 is often enough. But that all depents on so many factors like how you opponent play, how the board looks like how strong you hand is, the action on previous streets, etc..

You will learn this by watching a lot of videos and post some hand or judge them by yourself (try and error is cheaper if you do it on the forum than on the table ).
• Bronze
Joined: 06.12.2008
Thanks BDL and cirith

This has helped already. Didn't actually think to think differently about odds to passive and aggressive players.

c/c on river has been my biggest issue. Let's hope my next session goes better.