ROI in a 6 person sit and go

  • 7 replies
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      10 decent
      15-20 good-great
      20+: legend ^^
    • purpleshoes21
      purpleshoes21
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2008 Posts: 100
      thanks :)
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      :) btw check out the havana (beginner) 6max tournaments on Ipoker (mansion and Titan and others): super super soft
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Originally posted by viewer88
      10 decent
      15-20 good-great
      20+: legend ^^
      Over how many games? 5000+?
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      over infinite games ;)

      you're question is impossible to answer :tongue:
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      It's hard to tell a certain ROI since they are super swingy. Players are less risk averse on the bubble (you'll see what it seems like really loose calls) so you get called more often ---> variance.

      Anyway, from what i figured 6max turbos should be about the most profitable game you can play if you don't mass-table (i can handle 9 tables, maybe sometime in the future 12, but more then that it's simply insane).

      I ran at 8-9%ROI at 13$ turbos for 1k games but now after like 2.7k i'm at a sad .45$/game which is like 3-4%. So let's say 5% for your average profitable guy.

      Early and middle stage are super profitable since you'll probably double your stack by value-betting something like TPTK and getting called with crap, but once you get to push-fold you should be a little cautious because of the loose calling i was talking about. Oh, and you should be at least decent at heads-up.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      You can find a lot of suggestions for ROIs which are based on past games which no longer exist, or other stakes than the ones you play, or wishful thinking in either direction. (Some people want higher ROIs to be possible, perhaps so their hot streaks can continue. Others want their lower ROIs to be the best possible so that they have nothing to learn.) To get an objective estimate on the ROIs in today's games, I recommend using a tool like SharkScope.com.

      SharkScope has a leader board where you can look up the screen names and amounts won by the top players in each stake level and game type. Searching for these players shows you their ROIs. You can look up the players with the highest total profit in that category of play in 2010. The divisions are not necessarily fine enough to pin down the $6 versus $12 tournaments. In addition, many of the players who are winning the most have sacrificed some ROI to play more tables. Nevertheless, SharkScope will show you what some very good players are earning over thousands of tournaments.

      Be careful that the basic search (5 free searches per day) lumps all tournaments together, including MTTs. It is possible to have a much greater ROI in MTTs, so if you don't filter these out with an advanced search, you might get unrealistic numbers in case the player mixes in even a few MTTs.

      Also, be wary of small samples, particularly in lower stakes games. In higher stakes games, you will find people who play professionally or semi-professionally, who play 10,000 tournaments or more in a year. However, in low stakes games, even those on the leader board might have a small sample. (In case you want to be on a leader board without too much work, play something odd like 7 card stud SNGs.) The mathematical variance of 6-handed SNGs is not much different from the mathematical variance of 9-handed SNGs, with a standard deviation of 140%-150% of a buy-in per tournament. This means that after playing n tournaments, a rough 95% confidence interval for your true ROI is your observed ROI +- 290%/squareroot(n). After 1,000 tournaments, that is +- 10%. After 10,000 tournaments, +-3%. After 100,000 tournaments, +- 1%.

      So, what ROIs do players on the SharkScope leader board have? In the Hold'em 5-6 players turbo category, the 2 players with the highest total profits so far in 2010 have ROIs of 15% at the $3.25 6-handed SNGs over 7700 tournaments and 16% at a mixture of $2.75 and $5.50 6-handed SNGs over 4600 tournaments. At the next stake level, one player has maintained an ROI of 13% in 8400 $12 6-handed SNGs. Another has an ROI of 9% over 7900 $13 6-handed SNGs.

      These players are at the tops of the SharkScope leader boards. Their results should not be viewed as typical or par. Even though higher ROIs are probably possible without playing as many tables at once, players who are new to 6-handed SNGs should not expect to get ROIs that high at those stake levels.

      Some good players opt out of SharkScope so their results are not shown on the leader board. (There are costs and benefits of this. If you discover some game is a gold mine, you might not want to let others in. However, you do want regs to avoid joining your games and not think you blocked your stats due to embarrassment at losing.) Also, many sites prohibit the use of sites like SharkScope while playing. To be safe, wait until after you log out to look players up using SharkScope.