a few noob questions about short stacking

    • heyitsme
      heyitsme
      Basic
      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 6
      I have a few noob questions:

      1) The guide says that I should continuation bet on the flop, on a missed flop, against one person. But it also says that if my 2/3 pot bet is more than half my stack, to go all in. Does this mean I should be shoving with air, IF my continuation (bluff bet) is over half my stack?

      2) On the post flop section, I get instructed to bet/raise (try to get all in)with top pair, and at least a J kicker or better, and to also bet/raise (try to get it in) if I've raised PF and flop an OESD or Flush draw. My question is, should I just be shoving these hands if I'm first to act, or just betting the standard 2/3 pot, and get it in on a non scare card on the turn?

      3) Should I be calling any hands from the SB?

      4) When its folded around to the button and I'm in the BB or SB, its very likely that the button is going to raise. According to the chart, if he raises I should be folding hands like AQs KQ AJ TT etc. This seems like a big leak, maybe I'm wrong?

      5)I play on FTP .25/50 9 max and it really seems like I'm getting crushed by the blinds. I 12 table and my stats over the last 9,000 hands is around 5 vpip/4.9 PFR/ 23 total aggro. I'm attempting to follow this short stacking guide exactly, I'm just losing my tail. I'm down about 20 BIs or so. I realize this strat must be high variance, but I'm begining to question if this is still a working method, has anyone had success over a big sample size as of late?

      I know its a wall of text and I'm the new guy, I really need these questions answered though. Thanks so much in advance!

      -HeyItsMe
  • 8 replies
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      Hi, and welcome :)

      1) I tend to not shove with air, but if you have 2 overcards and you are against a pretty tight player, i maybe inclined to shove. If he is tight he is only calling with a good hand, but with two over cards you still have some outs, but he may also fold, putting you on an overpair. I tend to watch myself on partically drawy flops though. And if he has missed the flop, then he is going to have to fold.

      2) Play aggressive you are the preflop aggressor. You play like you already have the hand you are drawing to, so if you are feeling a little frisky you could try a c/r allin or just fire OOP, this is more personal feeling I think.

      3) No never, raise or fold only

      4) Read the Steals and resteals article here.. http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/207/ you'll have to reach silver to read the full article. But you can also judge by the att. to steal & and fold to resteal stats on your HUD, if you use one.

      5) The more I play SSS (20k hands now, more on other forms) The more I fall in love with it, I think you need to get a linked account to truely benefit from the articles that you can read at bronze and silver status. When I first started I was as, if not a lot more skeptical than you, but once you get to reading the more advanced articles, you'll find that it allows for plays with small PP's and also suited connectors. At your level these plays are standard, also, Going back to your blind issue... This is one that I had also, but you really need to get the steals and re-steals article read to truely understand how to combat this problem.
      Also, the variance is very high, my usual is around 10 - 20 BI's but I am still in profit. Also I think the amount of tables you play is a major factor.
      On Pokerstars when I was at NL10 I played the full 20 tables, Now I've moved to NL25 I started at just 8 tables to find my feet, but I now sit at 16 tables and find that's a nice comfy number to handle. With SSS I think the more tables you have the better it is.

      This is just my views of course and I have only been playing SSS for around 20k hands, and I am sure that others can other some better advice, but I tried my best.

      As for your stats... My total playing just SSS is VPIP 6.44 / PFR 5.92. If you are following the starting hands chart to the letter both these stats should be the same.... the average I've found looking at other peoples ranges from 6/6 - 8/8.

      Hope I've helped a little bit :D

      Good luck,

      D
    • heyitsme
      heyitsme
      Basic
      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by MrMardyBum
      Hi, and welcome :)

      1) I tend to not shove with air, but if you have 2 overcards and you are against a pretty tight player, i maybe inclined to shove. If he is tight he is only calling with a good hand, but with two over cards you still have some outs, but he may also fold, putting you on an overpair. I tend to watch myself on partically drawy flops though. And if he has missed the flop, then he is going to have to fold.

      2) Play aggressive you are the preflop aggressor. You play like you already have the hand you are drawing to, so if you are feeling a little frisky you could try a c/r allin or just fire OOP, this is more personal feeling I think.

      3) No never, raise or fold only

      4) Read the Steals and resteals article here.. http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/207/ you'll have to reach silver to read the full article. But you can also judge by the att. to steal & and fold to resteal stats on your HUD, if you use one.

      5) The more I play SSS (20k hands now, more on other forms) The more I fall in love with it, I think you need to get a linked account to truely benefit from the articles that you can read at bronze and silver status. When I first started I was as, if not a lot more skeptical than you, but once you get to reading the more advanced articles, you'll find that it allows for plays with small PP's and also suited connectors. At your level these plays are standard, also, Going back to your blind issue... This is one that I had also, but you really need to get the steals and re-steals article read to truely understand how to combat this problem.
      Also, the variance is very high, my usual is around 10 - 20 BI's but I am still in profit. Also I think the amount of tables you play is a major factor.
      On Pokerstars when I was at NL10 I played the full 20 tables, Now I've moved to NL25 I started at just 8 tables to find my feet, but I now sit at 16 tables and find that's a nice comfy number to handle. With SSS I think the more tables you have the better it is.

      This is just my views of course and I have only been playing SSS for around 20k hands, and I am sure that others can other some better advice, but I tried my best.

      As for your stats... My total playing just SSS is VPIP 6.44 / PFR 5.92. If you are following the starting hands chart to the letter both these stats should be the same.... the average I've found looking at other peoples ranges from 6/6 - 8/8.

      Hope I've helped a little bit :D

      Good luck,

      D
      I really appreciate the time you took to write this. Its a big deal, really. tyvm. Yes you did help me =D

      1) I'm just kinda confused still. Like... If i bet all in, I think he is calling me with stuff he beats me with and folding what he doesn't. Wouldn't betting 2/3 the pot do the same thing as shoving? If he missed, he is probably just as likely to fold as if I had shoved, am I wrong? I have been shoving every single made hand I get on the flop, I'm just not sure if that's what i need to be doing or not.

      2) Yea, getting tricky is pretty much out of the way for me right now. I'm just trying to get this basic portion of it perfect before I open my range or do anything fancy. If he bets at me, I shove, I know that much because thats what the guide says to do. When I'm First to act though, do I bet (over shove) or do I 2/3 pot size it?

      3) Ty, its noted

      4) Alright, I will. I get silver by signing up on a poker site, through this site, correct?

      5) ty, Anyone else winning a solid 1 or 2 bb/100 over a large sample? 50,000-200,000 hands or so.

      Thanks again!
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      1) Example...

      NL25

      You have $5 and you raised to $1 preflop (leaving $4)
      1 caller + blinds (for arguments sake) Total pot: $2.35
      you have nothing.
      You bet 2/3 of the pot ($1.60) leaving you $2.40
      Enough to bet again on the turn.... Should you feel you want to.

      I would play that way...

      Example 2...

      You have $3.90 and you raised to $1 preflop (leaving $2.90)
      1 caller + blinds Total pot $2.35
      You bet 2/3 of the pot ($1.60) leaving you $1.30?
      Where do you go on the turn? And can you fold to a re-raise for such a small amount?
      Shove or c/f.

      When I get a made hand on the flop, I decide how strong it is, and how many potential draws there are FD, Higher SD and how many players are active in the pot.

      Example...

      You have K,Q raised from late position and there were 2 callers

      Flop A,J,T - 2 x Hearts and you hold no hearts.

      Here I'd shove to protect my hand.

      Same scenario, same flop, but rainbow....

      3 players active including yourself, and it's checked to you with 1 player left to act after....

      You raised to $1.25 preflop (obv, cos that's what the chart says as there had to be a limper ;) )so pot is say $3.85.

      Here I'd bet 2/3 of the pot or half my stack if 2/3's is more than half as you don't really want them folding....


      Dunno, if that helps at all, but it's just the way I would play.



      I think that should cover point 2) also ;)


      3) Most welcome :)

      4) Yes. Goto http://www.pokerstrategy.com/online-poker-rooms/ and follow the setup instructions, Full Tilt or Pokerstars would be my recommendations, and Ipoker network (Titan, Mansion etc) would be a massive no no. (my own opinion). Make sure to add the correct bonus codes and also to add your screen name on the the poker network of choice back on this site so you can be tracked. :)


      5) Check out the blogs, the best one I know of (sorry to the rest who's I probably haven't read yet ;) ) is this one belonging to Gerv... Gerv's Galaxy: SSS NL100


      Ta dah! I'm trying.. Lol, but I am quite new to SSS myself :)

      Good Luck,

      D
    • heyitsme
      heyitsme
      Basic
      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 6
      You are very helpful. Like I said, I appreciate the time you put into your responses.
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      Hi

      Basic SSS is for micro limits, Advanced SSS is for higher limits. The main reason you are losing money is because you haven't worked your way up the limits properly. If you are learning basic SSS you should be playing NL10, and adding some advanced moves to your game each time you move up a limit. Blindsteals are the perfect example of this - the basic SSS involves no blindsteals at all, which is ideal for NL10. Advanced SSS involves stealing and restealing, which you need to survive the higher limits.

      Also, dont play 12 tables when you are learning a new strategy - you dont have enough time to properly evaluate each situation. Start at NL10 on 4 tables, when you have mastered basic SSS you can move up the limits one at a time, learning more and more as you go.

      good luck
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey very great responses by MrMardyBum there.

      He is of course right in what he is saying. If you are going to commit yourself with a continuation bet (since you have too little left to actually fold) you can just directly push - in order to maximize your Fold equity. Since you do this with both strong and drawing hands you are also balancing your play.

      Your stats look a tad bit tight (maybe 1% too tight) and it could well be that you have some post-flop leaks in terms of continuation betting. What limits are you currently playing on?

      The SSS evolves with time and there are more articles on it in our bronze, silver and gold sections. Our hand evaluation area is also quite important for perfecting your play :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • YoungCheese
      YoungCheese
      Basic
      Joined: 20.04.2009 Posts: 1
      Tournament poker is unqiue in the fact that you can actually win by folding. That's never the case in a side game. So I rarely bet with air, unless I've raised PF and some real rags flop out there afterwards, or the tournament is really deep stacked and losing a pot sized C-Bet wouldn't hurt my chances dramactically.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      o.O 16 tables. i usualy stick to one. because if you(i) do multiple tables you will make mistakes earlier. and you wont see how other players are playing so that when your playing against them in a hand you will know how that player plays.