[NL2-NL10] NL10SH Set on super drawy board vs two oponents

    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      Hello, i played the following hand

      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      UTG ($10.25)
      MP ($9.90)
      CO ($10.65)
      Button ($10.31)
      Hero (SB) ($9.85)
      BB ($18.12)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
      [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Button bets $0.30[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $1[/color], BB calls $0.90, Button calls $0.70

      Flop: ($3) 9, 10, J [color:#009B00](3 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets $3[/color], [color:#CC3333]BB raises to $17.12 (All-In)[/color], Button calls $9.31 (All-In), Hero calls $5.85 (All-In)

      Turn: ($30.47) J [color:#009B00](3 players, 3 all-in)[/color]

      River: ($30.47) 3 [color:#009B00](3 players, 3 all-in)[/color]

      Total pot: $30.47 | Rake: $2

      vs two solid oponents i am not sure what is the best play here because such players will push only with other set/made str/ monster draw like oefd

      but there is something else i would like to discuss:

      both enemies had QKo

      i decided to put this hand in equilator to find what is the equity and the following result showed:

      KhQs - 30.048%
      KdQh - 34.145%
      ThTc - 35.807%

      Well basically i am behind QK regardless that there are two players with the same cards. I am not sure in such situations how the percentage should be distributed, but at least my percentage against one of the enemies QK shouldnt be 30 vs 35. I am good in math and i am completely sure that everyone of us for himself got this 3x percentage for winning but for example KhQs vs ThTc is definetely not 30/35.

      Thank you for your comments.
      Silent
  • 5 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I wouldn´t there on the flop, consider pot odds and pot size and that you hold there set.
      If they happens to have straight or higher set, then nothing to do.
    • dallievas
      dallievas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 822
      Hi,
      I'm not very good at math but:
      Board: 9d Td Jc
      Dead:

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 32.385% 03.31% 29.08% 12897 113436.00 { KQs, KQo }
      Hand 1: 32.385% 03.31% 29.08% 12897 113436.00 { KQs, KQo }
      Hand 2: 35.230% 35.08% 00.15% 136854 576.00 { TT }

      EV= (32.43*0.35)-(5.85*0.65)=11.35-3.80=7.55
      Looks like EV+ call,but if you put their ranges not exact hands in equilator u should get even better results.
      GL :)
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Originally posted by silent21

      i decided to put this hand in equilator to find what is the equity and the following result showed:

      KhQs - 30.048%
      KdQh - 34.145%
      ThTc - 35.807%

      Well basically i am behind QK regardless that there are two players with the same cards. I am not sure in such situations how the percentage should be distributed, but at least my percentage against one of the enemies QK shouldnt be 30 vs 35. I am good in math and i am completely sure that everyone of us for himself got this 3x percentage for winning but for example KhQs vs ThTc is definetely not 30/35.

      Thank you for your comments.
      Silent
      Not sure I understand the actual question but those percentages are absolutely correct. Equilator gives you each players equity and you are actually 35 vs 65 in a set vs straight situation. But in this case being against two opponents both with KQ you still win 35% of the times because all your outs are clean and the straight still wins 65% of times but because most of those times the pot is splitted so is their equity , because 65% of the times they win 1/2 pot.
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      Originally posted by dallievas
      Hi,
      I'm not very good at math but:
      Board: 9d Td Jc
      Dead:

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 32.385% 03.31% 29.08% 12897 113436.00 { KQs, KQo }
      Hand 1: 32.385% 03.31% 29.08% 12897 113436.00 { KQs, KQo }
      Hand 2: 35.230% 35.08% 00.15% 136854 576.00 { TT }

      EV= (32.43*0.35)-(5.85*0.65)=11.35-3.80=7.55
      Looks like EV+ call,but if you put their ranges not exact hands in equilator u should get even better results.
      GL :)
      this is what i meant

      based on the calculation from equlator i am +EV but in fact i am -EV. This is because regardless of the percentage shown i am against a straight on the flop. Set vs Straight is -EV on the flop always.


      @ BogdanDin7

      you understand my question correctly. my point is that in this situation[3way pot] i cannot calcualate the EV based on the percentage shown in equilator, but also i cannot calculate it in a set vs str situation (2 way) because the money are much less. my question was exactly how to calculate the EV. should i calcualte set vs str + 10$ dead money?

      thanks
    • dallievas
      dallievas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 822
      Hi,
      your call on flop is EV+ is because of very good pot odds 32,43:5,85=5.54:1.
      If the pot odds on flop would be for ex. pot 20,he bets 20,your call 20.EV=
      (4080.35)-(20*0.65)=14-13=1 strange but still EV+ marginally on the long run (you get not real monies but Sklansky bucks instead :D )Those dead money have big impact on EV. And don't forget that their hands practically can't get better,your instead have 1:3.2 odds to full house.When equilator calculates equity it calculates on flop if the hand is played out to showdown,so adds ur full
      house outs to those percentages.
      GL :)