[NL2-NL10] AJs late VS 2 opp

    • kourou
      kourou
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 54
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $4.28
      MP1:
      $26.03
      MP2:
      $4.65
      MP3:
      $4.98
      CO:
      $11.16
      BU:
      $23.44
      SB(Hero):
      $9.54
      BB:
      $16.43
      UTG1:
      $12.67

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J.
      5 folds, CO calls $0.25, BU folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $1.00, CO calls $1.00.

      Flop: ($3.75) J, K, 8 (3 players)
      Hero bets $2.42, BB raises to $15.18(All-In), CO calls $9.91(All-In), Hero folds.

      Turn: ($31.26) 6 (2 players)

      River: ($31.26) 7 (2 players)

      Final Pot: $31.26.

      Should I just check/fold on the flop ?
      (I had a big stack because I just doubled up and I was waiting for the big blind to reach me)
  • 16 replies
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      NH, imo.

      I think with a normal stack I'd just invest the rest of it with my flop c-bet on this board. But since you have double stack, I like your line: there are too many hands that have you beat (K,J K,Q etc) - even though in some instances BB is just playing the flush draw super aggressively.

      Tim
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Fold preflop.
      As played it's C/F on the flop since you are playing against two opponents OOP and very often behind on that flop.

      Just notice you are playing with 40 BB. (and you are in the SSS section).
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Fold preflop.
      As played it's C/F on the flop since you are playing against two opponents OOP and very often behind on that flop.

      Just notice you are playing with 40 BB. (and you are in the SSS section).


      I don't mean to be unkind but I couldn't disagree more with this comment.

      First, why on earth would Hero fold pf? He has a legitimate raising hand for SSS in the SB - A,Js. Just because CO limps, doesn't mean Hero must fold a valid hand. He correctly raises 5BB, in my view.

      Second, OP already explained why he was playing a double stack. You may have 'just noticed' it, but before weighing in with a smart arse comment suggesting he's posting his hand in the wrong section, you could have taken the time to read the whole post.

      Regards,
      Tim
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Preflop easy and standard. Post flop is a c/f against 2 opponents without a made hand.
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Take it easy Tim, I really did not notice his comment.
      It doesn't change my opinion as I'm folding AJs from SB playing SSS. (same for pf)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by maya1984
      It doesn't change my opinion as I'm folding AJs from SB playing SSS.
      If you don't you're losing quite some value, however I agree it kinda suck to play OOP. Therefore I like to shove preflop against 3 limpers or even against 2 with slightly decreased stack. Or I bet extra BB for playine OOP and shove any flop for max FE.
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Can you prove that generally you lose value by folding AJ from SB with one limper and BB to act?
      If so I would be glad to see it. :-)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Can you prove that generally you lose value by folding AJ from SB with one limper and BB to act?
      If so I would be glad to see it. :-)
      I don't think I can filter my stats so specifically(to AJ from SB with 1 limper) and even if I could I don't think I have big enough sample of this specific situation to have statistic value...

      ...but what you can do is put limper on a range(which is veeeeery loose for LP openlimpers) and compare AJ's equity against 1 random opponent and limper's range. If you play your AJ correct you should get most of the equity advantage out of it.

      Well, basically in poker you always lose value when you fold best hand and AJ is huge favorite against 1 random(BB) and 1 limper.
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      AT and A9 are also favorite against 1 random(BB) and 1 limper. Do you suggest raising/shoving with them too?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by maya1984
      AT and A9 are also favorite against 1 random(BB) and 1 limper. Do you suggest raising/shoving with them too?
      I play with stats, so I know exactly where I'm at with AT, A9 or any other hand and play according, raise or fold. However those 2 hands have less equity and are more risky. So, AJ+/77+ range for LP/blinds was suggested by PS.com experienced players and I'd say it should be taken for granted as optimal against unknown on micro limits.
    • maniac
      maniac
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.03.2006 Posts: 6,545
      fold preflop, AJ suxx with double stack
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Take it easy Tim, I really did not notice his comment.


      That's my point. If you are going to taking the time to respond to a person's post and specifically take the time to criticise them - implicitly - either for playing SSS with a double stack or for posting in the wrong section, then I think you owe it to yourself, and them, to read their whole post first.

      Interesting discussion about this particular situation. I really think you're missing out on value by not raising this up. If you raised and CO re-raises or shoves then I'm certainly not going broke with this hand OOP, but equally, it seems a crime to waste what is a pretty nice hand. I don't think you can equate A,Js with A,9 or A,T.

      T
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Double stack play is quite tricky and the problems you face by raising in this spot is being OOP against potentially two players with a double stack and a more or less marginal hand. Even though you crush their range you aren't making that huge of a mistake by folding here - then again you aren't making that big of a mistake by raising either.

      Funny that no-one has mentioned the option of completing and playing for a small pot yet ;)
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Just completing in SSS??? Blasphemy! Heresy! ;)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello,

      I am folding it preflop.

      Best regards,
      Rensu
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hi,

      I raise more preflop to like $1.5 or even $1.75 to generate more FE and play HU.

      As played, easy check/fold on the Flop but no way I fold AJs here agianst 1 openlimper, then I recommend you to leave the table asa you doubled up.

      @ SoyCD: I dont really like completing here since when you hit toppair you have to build up a pot against a RNDM range and stuff

      - Gerv