[NL2-NL10] A8o on a QQ5 fd draw board

    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $8.85
      MP3:
      $4.95
      CO:
      $10.00
      BU(Hero):
      $11.45
      SB:
      $5.90

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A, 8.
      MP3 calls $0.10, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.4, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.95) Q, Q, 5 (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero checks.

      Turn: ($0.95) A (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.60, MP3 raises to $1.2, Hero calls $0.60.

      River: ($3.35) 7 (2 players)
      MP3 bets $3.35, Hero folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $3.35.

      He is like 31/8/3 over small sample 17wtsd. who calls?



      Or should I fold to the turn raise if I am folding river shove?

      Oh and the flop ... c/bet or not?
      he folded twice in six times so far... really small sample.
      I had only 25 hands on him so it was hard to judge. If he had this open range and 4 aggro + he was being aggressive at river a lot on a larger sample I'd snap call.





      I ran like 33/30/2.7 50% att to steal at the table.
  • 11 replies
    • Fongie
      Fongie
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Raise 5x bb preflop

      Definately c-bet flop, paired boards are teh shitz for c-betting.

      As played... even if I'm not getting there :tongue: , I think just folding on the turn is best. It's rather weak, but which hands can he do this with? C/Minraise turn is a monster-line, and I only see 55, Qs and better aces than yours doing this here (there aren't many worse aces than your own, and they probably aren't raising). If you call turn you're at best calling for a rivered split, and that sucks, so I'm folding right there.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Lol, how can I raise 4BB+XBB when I play so openly and with 100bb + many people are low-stacked? Hope you are not serious :)

      And yeah, the c-bet is not as clear, if he had the 33% fold to c/bet on a larger sample I don't think he folds any PP, any FD or even AK.

      So how would you size the C-bet if this would be the case?
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
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      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      Lol, how can I raise 4BB+XBB the way I play? Hope you are not serious :)
      What`s that suppose to mean ? :D
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      Lol, how can I raise 4BB+XBB the way I play? Hope you are not serious :)
      What`s that suppose to mean ? :D
      You can't open 4BB+XBB when you raise 30%+ hands.


      The 4BB+X works well if you raise Premiums+ middle to high connectors as you are dominating other ranges (+you want the pots bigger because of the same reason).
      I do that when I grind 17/13 14 tables.

      But you can't keep it up if you raise any connector and one gapper and really marginal hands sometimes, where you rely on your flop+ play and want to play as many pots as possible (and keep them smaller).
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
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      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Of course you can. I don`t see the connection between the two. You raise that ammount to give him bad odds to call , doesn`t really matter if you raise 9% or 30% of your hands. All you have to do is pick good spots to isolate.

      If you want to play as many pots as possible and keep them small why are you even raising in the 1st place. Anyway Ax off is not a hand I would make a smaller raise than normal and face myself in a multyway pot. I might go for somehting like that with PP/SC but then you have to raise small all your hand for deception reasons and you end up giving good odds to get sucked out with your premium.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Did you ever play LAG?

      You try to play as many hands as possible in position, extract thin value and knock out others from the pot as much as you can. And I don't have to tell you that bluffs are better done when you are not commiting yourself every time you attempt them

      If you just limp you are losing the PF initiative and massive amount of FE (and FE is what you rely on when playing 30-60% of hands)
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      It is extremely challenging style but its helluva fun ( And I play on the nitty side of it ;o) as you are not isolating just the fishes, but also the solid players which you believe you have an edge against on later streets.

      And I forgot to mention the impacts of meta game and table image (applicable to very very few people that pay attention at micros ;)


      I got sick of all the nits that play like Hasenbraten, and this style perfectly counters them :)


      Its extremely useful when I run into one of those 20/10 tables full of multitabling nits, for the fishes there always is the 17/14 tight style with 4BB+X of course.
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
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      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Actually I have been playing a semi-Lag style since I started. But I still don`t make my pre-flop raises cheap. I will however make my BU raises 1-1.5 blind less than normal just to make my steals cheaper , maybe even from CO if I have a tight BU after me. From the rest of the table I am just looking for good spots and playing good solid poker. Don`t see any value in going LAG without position anyway.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Actually I have been playing a semi-Lag style since I started. But I still don`t make my pre-flop raises cheap. I will however make my BU raises 1-1.5 blind less than normal just to make my steals cheaper , maybe even from CO if I have a tight BU after me. From the rest of the table I am just looking for good spots and playing good solid poker. Don`t see any value in going LAG without position anyway.
      Positional Dependency
      Despite some weaknesses, this system is quite interesting and is probably a useful one if you are a very good, loose-aggressive player at a table full of particularly bad players who have no idea how to react to loose-aggressives. It allows you to steal more cheaply and exercise significant pot control when your opponents understand pot odds and implied odds, but find you hard to read.
      http://www.liquidpoker.net/pokerarticle/146433/Preflop_Raising

      Great Idea thanks bro :)

      (
      Why compel people to call your raise when your average hand is bad, and all you have to work with is position? And why dissuade people from calling your raise when your average hand is good, but you have to play it out of position?
      -The counter Argument.


      I have been trying to play LAG only for few days and only as 1/2 of my sessions (rest is 14 table tight ABC) and I am finding my style. But in this hand I raised because two PF nits were behind me and I knew there is high probability I'll end up playing in position.


      But the Positional Dependency Argument is interesting and I'll see how it goes with NL10-25 (I am rolled for NL25 but want to grind some extra BI's that I expect to lose in the transition).


      P.S. on some ridiculously PF nitty tables I collect huge amounts of blinds from any position because the multitablers are so oblivious to what I am doing, and it goes to the extreme where I don't even have to play a hand and just raise every two cards, fold to a reraise or not give anything extra when they call and play profitably(with the bonus of actually winning some pots where I see flop)

      Oh and I forgot to mention that I play with 14% 3Bet (same reason as above)
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
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      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Well good luck then. I know that if you can master a LAG approach it can bring even more money than a TAG one because of all the multitabling tags there are these days even in the higher limits , but the style is really hard to master. I`m just gonna stick to a combination of the two and hope for the best :P
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,354
      Gl to you too :)

      Btw against fishes that watch the table lag is hugely profitable even if they have 50VP. When you donk them or raise them every single time and let them win some small pots ans show the bluff their already wide range opens to ace high.

      Some people try to counter it by being aggressive themselves, and that never works out as they got zero experience with playing like this (I am sure everyone has experienced this before... The 70/50 Maniac is always raising me, my TP is the nuts, lets put him all-in, but a good maniac will never lose huge pots :) )