[NL2-NL10] Three ugly hands, all-in (SSNL25 FR)

    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Bar the second preflop reraise, it's pretty evident what's wrong with these hands so replies aren't really necessary; I'm probably doing this mainly because I feel that airing my worst play motivates me to exorcise the bad instincts behind it more than the losses themselves do, and maybe someone would benefit from this as a lesson in what not to do under almost any circumstances.

      After encountering a long string of rocks at tables which I'd selected for their large average pots, I was starting to get frustrated and my play tended towards loose aggressive after I got no callers at any tables with multiple AA, KK and QQ hands (plus a few AK and AQ, but collecting the blinds is not such a bad result for them in my mind). As these hands should show, I think I forgot that not all players automatically fold to any bet.

      No reads on any of the opponents in these particular hands, but I doubtless would've ignored them in this state anyway.

      1. I clearly should've given after my continuation bet was accepted without complaint. Chasing the pot with 6 outs at best and very little hope of winning unimproved was -EV, especially with a J on the turn which was an unlikely scare card and fairly likely to help my opponent.

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

      Button ($13.75)
      SB ($23.55)
      BB ($25)
      UTG ($5.10)
      UTG+1 ($29.63)
      UTG+2 ($4.80)
      MP1 ($17.70)
      MP2 ($58.01)
      Hero ($5.70)
      CO ($40.60)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K:spade: , A:diamond: .
      1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.

      Flop: ($2.85) 6:diamond: , 3:club: , 8:club: (2 players)
      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 calls $2.

      Turn: ($6.85) J:spade: (2 players)
      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2.45 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $2.45.

      River: ($11.75) 8:heart: (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Final Pot: $11.75

      2. Not sure about this one, a little input may be needed here. I think my real choices preflop were min raise or push. Virtually committing myself with AK was clearly not bright. Min raise might get me a further raise to which I could push and would let me get out easily if I'm called, while pushing has the normal benefits with a strong hand.

      EDIT: Actually, I think my conclusion is lacking somewhat. This is probably an issue of pot control (never mind for now that I haven't been able to study the material here on this subject because the update didn't happen last week, I'll make it up as I go along, nor that it's probably usually not very relevant to short stacked play). With AK I'm aiming to either pair on the flop and be able to bet enough to keep unwanted draws out and also enough to get myself all-in on the turn or to be able to make a continuation bet large enough to drive opponents out of the pot, or to avoid postflop action altogether. Pushing preflop achieves the simplest of these, but my limited experience suggests not the most +EV. I'd think that the ideal pot size on the flop would probably be about 4/3 of my remaining stack, or maybe close to or slightly less than. Calling might actually be a reasonable option here?

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

      Button ($27.35)
      SB ($10.05)
      BB ($31.60)
      UTG ($12.34)
      UTG+1 ($24.15)
      UTG+2 ($23.15)
      Hero ($5)
      MP2 ($24)
      MP3 ($12.37)
      CO ($9.30)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A:spade: , K:spade: .
      2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $1, Hero raises to $3, 5 folds, BB calls $2.75, UTG+2 calls $2.

      Flop: ($9.10) 2:spade: , 9:heart: , 2:club: (3 players)
      BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $2 (All-In), BB calls $2, UTG+2 raises to $4.5, BB calls $2.50.

      Turn: ($20.10) 6:diamond: (3 players, 1 all-in)
      BB checks, UTG+2 checks.

      River: ($20.10) T:heart: (3 players, 1 all-in)
      BB checks, UTG+2 checks.

      Final Pot: $20.10

      3. I'm quite clearly on tilt by this point, analysis is absolutely not necessary. Like the folded trips in my first post, I'm just posting this one as a reminder to myself not to do anything this stupid again.

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

      CO ($13.75)
      Button ($23.45)
      SB ($24.75)
      BB ($5.10)
      UTG ($35.13)
      UTG+1 ($4.80)
      UTG+2 ($17.70)
      MP1 ($58.01)
      Hero ($5)
      MP3 ($40.60)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J:heart: , A:club: .
      UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.75.

      Flop: ($3.35) T:spade: , 6:spade: , 9:club: (3 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $2.5, CO calls $2.50, UTG folds.

      Turn: ($8.35) 3:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.5 (All-In), CO calls $1.50.

      River: ($11.35) 5:club: (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Final Pot: $11.35
  • 2 replies
    • Alaton
      Alaton
      Black
      Joined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 1,472
      Originally posted by howard182
      3. I'm quite clearly on tilt by this point, analysis is absolutely not necessary. Like the folded trips in my first post, I'm just posting this one as a reminder to myself not to do anything this stupid again.

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

      CO ($13.75)
      Button ($23.45)
      SB ($24.75)
      BB ($5.10)
      UTG ($35.13)
      UTG+1 ($4.80)
      UTG+2 ($17.70)
      MP1 ($58.01)
      Hero ($5)
      MP3 ($40.60)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J:heart: , A:club: .
      UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.75.

      Flop: ($3.35) T:spade: , 6:spade: , 9:club: (3 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $2.5, CO calls $2.50, UTG folds.

      Turn: ($8.35) 3:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.5 (All-In), CO calls $1.50.

      River: ($11.35) 5:club: (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Final Pot: $11.35


      I had the same problem when starting SSS.
      I was always thinking like "pot is 8,35$ I only have 1,5$ left, so what the hell I want this pot!"
      Of course this is totally wrong and you know it.
      I always try to imagine with what hands I myself would call a shortstack committing almost all his money in a pot and I come to the conclusion, I would need at least a very good draw or just more likely any pair.
      Somehow it's hard to let go of such pots, that's the reason why it often is benefical to have not the full 20 BB but something from 15-17 BB.
      If you have a standard pot with 1 or 2 limpers, you raise 5-6 BB before the flop.
      If you get called by only one player, the pot will be 12-14 BB with you having left something about 10 BB which is better to push allin as a semibluff (Ace-high might still be the winner).

      That's the reason why I only reload my stack when falling bellow 15 BB.
      I reload to ~18 BB in that case to benefit from the effect mentioned above.


      Good luck!
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Well, as I said that hand was played while in the grip of severe tilt. The flop was a terrible spot for a continuation bet, it was too large if I had decided to make one anyway, and even going all in here would've been preferable as I was just giving my opponent reason to call what might barely count as a semi-bluff, but should realistically be called a pure bluff, and maybe letting him get away on the turn in the improbable scenario that I do catch anything.

      I like the sound of the even shorter stack idea though, the advantages might make up for the value you lose when you're called with a legitimate hand. Managing your stack must start to take up a lot of time though; just reloading frequently with a normal short or full stack is distracting enough.