Mansion vs Stars Rewards

    • Verre
      Verre
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 708
      I have been told that Stars rewards are better at higher levels than Mansions rewards are. I just took this for granted since I was playing on stars getting no points at low limits.

      I moved over to Mansion for many reasons (Low limit rewards/weaker games/deposit bonus) and didn't pay any attention to the bonus until I came across a guy on a different poker site talking about his cash bonus from Mansion. I looked into the bonus costs and they seem easier to attain than the Pokerstars ones are.

      On top of this it seems you dont need to be at a certain club level to have access to these rewards? I know your probubly going to be at a higher level if your getting these rewards, but even the 100k reward seems rather cheap at 32 million points.

      I played a small 4 table .25/.5 session last night and accumulated 400 points. I figure if i just grind like normal I can grind 1.5k points a day. Within a few months I could get some of the smaller cash rewards.

      Any input in regards to these two sites and the value of switching back to stars at higher limits would be much appreciated.
  • 15 replies
    • slikec
      slikec
      Global
      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      Lol low limits Stars have 0 bonuses but players higher limits they have really nice bonuses especially for FL players.

      I mean rake back deals(or bonuses or what ever you want to say that give you some money for volume you put) are very important low stakes since low limits we always pay 5% rake while higher limits it get lower and lower in %.

      I am still low stake player is no way i plan to play at Stars no matter number of fishes i read all the time if they will keep all my rake for them. I mean i like getting 1/3 of rake i produce back is nice income for me;)
    • Verre
      Verre
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 708
      I find the game at Stars harder than Mansion tbh. Alot more aggression from everyone at the table at stars. You have guys calling down with gutshots and hitting rivers, with 3 other people calling to the river. It gets frusterating.

      Bonus wise, I asked because I'm wondering if it is worth it to stay at mansion at the higher limits. The rakeback bonuses at Stars look to be break even with the Mansion bonuses at higher levels.
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      You are missing one big thing here and you will notice it after my calculations ;)
      I can only compare limits up to 0.5/1 with these two sites, so let's do that...

      FL SH 0.5/1 Mansion:
      21449 hands
      18214 MCP collected
      85 MCP/100
      637,94$ rake paid
      2,97BB/100 rake

      FL SH 0.5/1 PokerStars
      29856 hands
      5131 VPP collected
      17,2 VPP/100
      731,36$ rake paid
      2,45BB/100 rake

      So let's take 285$ PokerStars' bonus and 500$ Mansion's bonus.

      For 285$ bonus you need 25,000 FPP.
      As gold you would need 12,500 VPP (25k/2), which is
      72674 hands.
      In meantime you generate 1780$ rake.

      For 500$ bonus you need 250 000 MCP.
      For easier calculation, let's assume we also play 72674 hands in three months.
      72674 * 85/100 = 61773 MCP with monthly boost: 2,5*61773 = 154432 MPC
      +Three month's boost: 105 000 MCP
      = 259433 MCP
      = 104% 500$ bonus = ~520$ bonus.

      Now you will say... WTF, you get 235$ more at Mansion!
      Guess again :)
      After 72674 hands, you pay 2158$ rake.

      PokerStars:
      -1780$ rake + 285$ Cash Bonus = -1495$
      Mansion:
      -2158$ rake + 520$ Bonus = -1638$

      So at PokerStars you have 143$ more after three months of playing and 72674 hands.



      Similar story at 0.25/0.50... (won't go into details here)
      FL SH 0.25/0.50 PokerStars
      12213 hands
      155,25$ rake paid
      2,54BB/100 rake

      FL SH 0.25/0.50 Mansion
      22044 hands
      370,06$ rake
      3.38BB/100 rake paid

      After 100 000 hands:
      PokerStars: 1270$ rake paid
      Mansion: 1690$ rake paid

      You'd have to play 6 months straight at Mansion to get even...
    • Verre
      Verre
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 708
      Interesting, so basically the level to switch is between .25/.5 and .5/1 because even though you pay more rake at .25/.5 you will still get rewarded playing at mansion and you get a nice middle finger from stars and get like 3 points for every 100 hands.

      For me though, as long as they are competitive for bonuses, Mansion is more profitable. I have never noticed such a big difference switching sites. I actually feel like I'm eating fish playing at mansion where as at stars the loosness of the game I feel like i'm just trying to keep my head above water.
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Originally posted by Verre
      Interesting, so basically the level to switch is between .25/.5 and .5/1 because even though you pay more rake at .25/.5 you will still get rewarded playing at mansion and you get a nice middle finger from stars and get like 3 points for every 100 hands.
      It's still better at PokerStars, because rake is so much lower. You do not get rewarded enough at Mansion. Don't know about higher limits, but you can do calculation for yourself. Just look at sticky thread in Stars and Mansion's subforums :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      there's a link to a site somewhere here in the forum (general discussion i think) that cointains rake tables from all major sites. and for FL 2/4 and up i think the stars has lowest rake/100 hands and lowest rake/pot size :) . And even at 0.5/1 and 1/2 it's pretty low :) .
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      All you need is this graph (from the same site you are talking about).

      And just a quick look at stickies (like I said):
      PokerStars:
      FIXED LIMIT SH:
      0,25/0,5 FL SH.....2.52 BB/100...(22k hands)
      0,5/1 FL SH..........2.45 BB/100...(48k hands)
      1/2 FL SH =..........2.40 BB/100...(18k hands)
      2/4 FL SH =..........1.82 BB/100...(16k hands)
      3/6 FL SH ............2.01 BB/100...(21k hands)

      Mansion:
      FL 0.10/0.20 SH = 3,19BB/100 rake paid (5,200 hands)
      FL 0.25/0.50 SH = 3.38BB/100 rake paid (22,000 hands)
      FL 0.5/0.1 SH = 2.97/100 rake paid
      FL 3/6 SH = 3.30BB/100 rake paid (10,000 hands)
      FL 5/10 SH = 2.49BB/100 rake paid (22,000 hands)

    • Verre
      Verre
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 708
      Yup, Stars is definately better at for rake except at high stakes.

      I go back to my original statement that the games at mansion are easier and that makes up for the extra 1 bb/100 rake (on average).

      I will probubly go back to stars once i hit 1/2 but for now I get a free 200% deposit bonus at Mansion and I actually get points there where as at stars I look at my FPPs an hour later and i've accumulated 6. There is no point playing there with the harder compotition and no points.
    • Jonaton
      Jonaton
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 237
      Does anyone know if there is a similar graph anywhere out there charting the ultra micors rake rates by room? Would be an excellent resource for all the beginners here. WTF is with Pacific's rake system it is absurdly high.

      Also this table has not been updated for at least a couple of years as it has separate lines for UB and Absolute and they use the exact same rake system and have for quite a while now.
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by Primzi
      there's a link to a site somewhere here in the forum (general discussion i think) that cointains rake tables from all major sites. and for FL 2/4 and up i think the stars has lowest rake/100 hands and lowest rake/pot size :) . And even at 0.5/1 and 1/2 it's pretty low :) .
      That site has small samplesize and I can honestly say it's incorrect in many ways because you have to realize you're not paying MGR... And MGR/personal rake ratio can be on each site different.
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      To be honest I really love FT over all sites just because the deal we get with Pokerstrategy includes 27% rakeback which is very nice also tons of fish, traffic at all hours of the day, lots of tables aand the rake is very low I think its a $3 cap per hand and HU its $0.50 cap. and you can just save up your points so you dont lose any rakeback and just buy something nice once you have hit the mid/high stakes (the store has a ton of items)
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Like a month ago I calculated same thing for PokerStars vs FullTilt at 0.25/0.5 and 0.5/1. And PokerStars was better in comparison to FullTilt, even without rakeback deal...
      Post is in Slovene and I don't have time and will to translate, but at 0.5/1 you would need 34% rakeback deal at FTP, just to get even with PokerStars. Not including PokerStars' cashbonuses and stuff, so it's even "worse".
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Hope you'll forgive me for going a little off-topic. I am currently playing at Mansion but in order to make a rather big profit I must play during the night. I live in GMT+2h timezone so i find that there is more profitable if I start to play at around 20:00-21:00 GMT. I can describe this spot like this: the number of players increase, increase, ..., go to a max and then it's starting to decrease slowly. I think that then is the best time to play.

      Question is, if i move to PokerStars or FullTilt, what is the best time for fishing? At Mansion during that period it's not uncommon to find the table where all my opponents are loose or very loose or to find very loose, very agressive, high WTS players with 300bb-400bb. (NL4 SH). Thanks.
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      you'll find always enough tables with a lot of fishes on Stars up to midstakes, so don't worry - it's the biggest site with GREAT traffic :)
    • stiansk
      stiansk
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 121
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Hope you'll forgive me for going a little off-topic. I am currently playing at Mansion but in order to make a rather big profit I must play during the night. I live in GMT+2h timezone so i find that there is more profitable if I start to play at around 20:00-21:00 GMT. I can describe this spot like this: the number of players increase, increase, ..., go to a max and then it's starting to decrease slowly. I think that then is the best time to play.

      Question is, if i move to PokerStars or FullTilt, what is the best time for fishing? At Mansion during that period it's not uncommon to find the table where all my opponents are loose or very loose or to find very loose, very agressive, high WTS players with 300bb-400bb. (NL4 SH). Thanks.
      Fulltilt has overial better oponents than stars. I lost 90$ from my own money on fulltilt
      I moved to PS when I got the 2 free dollars there, now the 2 free dollars are at 240$. (I just moved them over to mansio to test out there, and being able to gather strategypoints)