NL20 for living?

    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
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      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      I have to make next step in my poker career. So I am going to play NL20 with 5BI BRM. So far so good. I also have some money but not on the poker account. What do you think? Am I going to broke? And also I want to earn aprox 50$ a day. Is it possible on that limit?
  • 51 replies
    • csnmf
      csnmf
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      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      5bi? or did you miss a 0? with 5bi your chance of going broke is high even if you are a massive winner, and you are basically gambling you hit an upswing to start.

      making $50 a day should be easy, something between 2-3k hands per day will be enough, depending on your winrate, and then on top of that you can get a few extra dollars with rakeback deals.
    • ShadowOfLight1337
      ShadowOfLight1337
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 239
      Originally posted by csnmf
      5bi? or did you miss a 0? with 5bi your chance of going broke is high even if you are a massive winner, and you are basically gambling you hit an upswing to start.

      making $50 a day should be easy, something between 2-3k hands per day will be enough, depending on your winrate, and then on top of that you can get a few extra dollars with rakeback deals.
      2-3k hands per day?
      How many tables do you do!? I for instance do 4 tables and on my day off I can only get like 1.5k hands, that is like in 5-8 hours.


      But yes I agree. 5 BI is just asking for trouble. So I'd suggest you stay in the NL10 using SSS until you run up to 150$ and then go up to NL20 using the SSS.
    • csnmf
      csnmf
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      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      i normally do 3k hands per day 7/8tabling SH tables for about 5 hours, last month i average 615 hands per hour
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      5 Bi is just ridicilous. I would take a sidebet that you will go broke with such a BRM. $50 a day is possible but pretty difficult imo. Don't think of making a living out of poker until you reached NL200.
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
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      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,804
      $50 a day is 3k hands if you're crushing the games, but then wth are you doing on NL20..
      oh yea and it's quite an agressive BRM with 5 BI :)
    • slikec
      slikec
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      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      Depends how much is for you for living? I mean if for living is average salary +lets say 25% minimum(since poker can be cruel and in short term even if you played well you can run bad and be in big problems) even at NL20 SH can be done if you take it as work and play 160hours month.

      Calculations are easy.

      If you play 4 tables thats like 300hands hour/160=48k hands

      If you have winrate 5BB/100 that makes 600$
      If you have winrate 10BB/100 that makes 1200$ and so on.

      Now lets say you get 30% rake back. I would say that playing 48k hands on NL20 you would make ~ 700$ rake*0,3=210$.

      Calculations are easy what is not easy is how you will manage downswing or even worse what you'll do if you'll play like crap etc.

      Just play for fun for half year if you'll do good you'll jump limits to at least NL100 and if you'll do good there than ...
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      With 5bi you go broke. As for living out of nl20 winnings, it's possible, depends from what country you are. But then again, why would you want to grind all day long microstakes just to cash out without perspectives to move up while you could get a regular job and just build your roll at free time so to be able to play higher.
    • NiekamNeidomu
      NiekamNeidomu
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      Joined: 29.05.2007 Posts: 307
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      5 Bi is just ridicilous. I would take a sidebet that you will go broke with such a BRM. $50 a day is possible but pretty difficult imo. Don't think of making a living out of poker until you reached NL200.
      Nightfrostas is from Lithuania.. xD minimum wage here is about 350$ a month.. decent wage is ~~700$ ;d and with 1500$/month you can w/o bothers ;) so yeah with nl200 you have to win 170bb to get min wage ^_^
    • Fongie
      Fongie
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      /me contemplates moving to Lithuania
    • ShadowOfLight1337
      ShadowOfLight1337
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 239
      And since right now it's hard to get jobs in the Baltic states I think having poker as a solid income only is a plus, since you could possibly get fired at any moment.
    • Ejeckt
      Ejeckt
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      Joined: 06.12.2008 Posts: 517
      I'm sure he meant 50BI, not 5.

      Well it's possible to play for a living at NL20. I doubt you'll have a very good income, and times will be hard when you hit a downswing and don't have any or very little income to show for a month. Additionally, because you'll have to cash out for expenses, moving up in the limits will be very difficult.

      I think that if you can get to $5000BR, you can then consider dedicating more of your life to making poker a career. As TribunCaesar wrote, get to NL200, evaluate, and then make your decision.

      This is actually pretty easy, if you think about it. For example, business owners also need starting capital, and way more than $5000 to establish themselves and then make it a good living. In this regard, poker requires relatively little monetary investment. So I would not rush it, because poker is not a get rich quick plan. Wait until you're in a better spot - play your life like you play your cards. Patiently and confidently.

      When you're ready to go pro (to make poker your profession, for a living), you won't need to come to the forums and ask for opinions. You'll know yourself.

      Best of luck!
    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
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      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      50BI? And you meant NL200. I am sure :s_evil:

      Ok I have played limit before. But on 0,25/0,5 I am good but found more juicy NL4. So now I am playing that. But its too low. In fact after today I have 6,5BIs for NL20. If its as fishy as NL4 I have no doubt to get solid 50$ a day.

      And if I will go broke ... its only one accout and I can downgrade and deposit some of my prev winnings. Of course NL20 is only starting point but after a year of playing poker earning aprox 300$ its time to move from micros somehow...
    • csnmf
      csnmf
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      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      oh wow, after reading that i have re-evaluated your chances of going broke up to 100%, the only experience you have of NL is on NL4 and from what it sounds like a few k hands at most, and you are currently on a heater.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
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      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by Alafoe
      50BI? And you meant NL200. I am sure :s_evil:

      Ok I have played limit before. But on 0,25/0,5 I am good but found more juicy NL4. So now I am playing that. But its too low. In fact after today I have 6,5BIs for NL20. If its as fishy as NL4 I have no doubt to get solid 50$ a day.

      And if I will go broke ... its only one accout and I can downgrade and deposit some of my prev winnings. Of course NL20 is only starting point but after a year of playing poker earning aprox 300$ its time to move from micros somehow...
      No its not... your BR will determine your move. 6.5BI? You mad?
      Read my blog to see what can happen on Nl20... I had multiple 250$ downswings.... how will you be able to handle that?

      Its not as fishy as NL4. Here if you wanna move up, use this:

      Nl4 till 200$.
      Then NL10 till 400$ and you can take shots at NL20
      NL20 from 400 (500$ is better) to 1,000$ then you can take shots at Nl50

      And this is already a very aggressive BRM where you might have to switch back down limits if the shots go wrong..

      P.S you cannot use Nl20 to make a living.... its way to low. If you stop there you will seriously hinder your potential. Nl100 and 200 is the breaking point where you will find out if you have what it takes or not.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      you should try it imo , after you go broke probably you will understand why a good brm is so important and move up like everyone else did ( I think 98% possible )

      nl20 is a fishtank anyway but 6.5 buyins is suicide
    • luitzen
      luitzen
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      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      If you expect to make $50 daily on NL20 with a BR of 6,5BI you'll be to NL50 in no time, provided you're lucky.

      There really is no realism in your forecast. If you would be able to beat those limits that easy there wouldn't be any point in playing those limits. You would be rich in no time. That doesn't make any sense.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Minimum wage here is about $277 =)
    • ShadowOfLight1337
      ShadowOfLight1337
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 239
      Originally posted by luitzen
      If you expect to make $50 daily on NL20 with a BR of 6,5BI you'll be to NL50 in no time, provided you're lucky.

      There really is no realism in your forecast. If you would be able to beat those limits that easy there wouldn't be any point in playing those limits. You would be rich in no time. That doesn't make any sense.
      Why is it pointless?

      I mean... I'd rather get rich on lower limits than break even on higher limits.
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
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      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by Alafoe
      So I am going to play NL20 with 5BI BRM.
      Good luck, dude!

      Originally posted by AlafoeWhat do you think?
      I think you're gambling your $100 starting capital.

      Originally posted by AlafoeAm I going to broke?
      Most probably - yes.

      Originally posted by AlafoeAnd also I want to earn aprox 50$ a day. Is it possible on that limit?
      Yes. It is possible. $50 is 250 big blinds. Say you achieve a win ratio of 5 BB per 100 hands. So for 250 BBs you would need what? Let me see:

      5bb - 100 hands
      250 bb - x hands

      5x = 100 x 250
      x = 100 x 250/5
      x = 20 x 250
      x = 5000 hands per day. With 6 tables you can do like 500 hands per hour. So there you have it - 10 hours per day with maximum concentration.

      Please blog this. If you actually achieve it you're gonna be a poker celebrity IMO.