Hand of the Day - Part IV

    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Villain is unknown

      EDIT: FR Table (10max)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with A:spade: , K:spade: .
      [color:#CC3333]UTG raises[/color], [color:#666666]5 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero 3-bets[/color], [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], UTG calls.

      Flop: (7.50 SB) T:spade: , J:heart: , A:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]UTG bets[/color], Hero calls.

      Turn: (4.75 BB) 3:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]UTG bets[/color], Hero calls.

      River: (6.75 BB) 6:diamond: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]UTG bets[/color], Hero calls.

      Final Pot: 8.75 BB.
  • 13 replies
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      raise turn, call a 3-bet and call the river ui, raise ui and bet if he checks on the river ^^

      why? standar moved for 2 players on the flop :)
    • zaephyr
      zaephyr
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2006 Posts: 33
      This hand is awsome on so many levels.
      Perfectly played imo vs unknown.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Originally posted by zaephyr
      This hand is awsome on so many levels.
      Perfectly played imo vs unknown.
      Why? Could you explain it a bit?

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • jpbothawyn777
      jpbothawyn777
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2006 Posts: 67
      I would call on the flop and raise the turn, to see where i am, he raised out of utg so i think he prob has a high A maybe AJ or A10. if he has a pocket he would call down and if he caps im sure hero is behind so fold or call down.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      So what could be villains range?
    • jpbothawyn777
      jpbothawyn777
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2006 Posts: 67
      i think his range is high/med A or med pocket pair, Im not sure if we raise on the flop he prob. would just call with 2 pair and it would't tell us anything about his hand, so thats why i say raise on the turn what do u think?Actualy not totaly sure what to do but this is what i think.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
    • Blinzler
      Blinzler
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2005 Posts: 7,456
      to analyse the hand there are 2 important things to consider
      a) which hands are in villains range
      b) what would he do with those hands vs a raise/call on any street?


      part a) is pretty tricky since he donked and you somewhat need a good read on him to give him a range and b) depends on the player, but still try to analyse the hand in depth and justify the moves!
    • zaephyr
      zaephyr
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2006 Posts: 33
      Originally posted by Stefan1000
      Originally posted by zaephyr
      This hand is awsome on so many levels.
      Perfectly played imo vs unknown.
      Why? Could you explain it a bit?

      Best regards,
      Stefan
      Depends on what u put your unknowns, and my unknows is usually "quite streight forward tag".

      So given his pf play i put him on sth like 99-jj maybe qq, ATs+, AJo+, KQ.
      So on flop u win 99, QQ and AQ and i realy doubt he would donk 99/QQ.
      So cuz he is unknown calldown is imo proper option, while with reads this might be even a fold
    • Anakha
      Anakha
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2006 Posts: 92
      I want a crack at this :) , (I do have a major headache so I'm keeping this a little short)

      Opponent is unknown, so it's safest to assume he's a decent player (depeding on the limit).
      Likely handranges for an UTG raise (9players ahead):
      99-JJ
      ATs-AQs
      KQs
      AJ-AQ
      KQ

      If he's looser we might add a few lesser hands but I'm going to run with this for now.

      If we look at the board we'll see we're actually ahead only about 30-40% of the time. (I'm simplifying these numbers for the sake of my head :) ).

      The pot is 8.5 sb after his donk, why would he donk?

      Bet/3bet manouver, seems quite possible with his possible handranges.
      Representing bet/3bet, as a bluff or to put pressure on us and gain more information about the strength of his hand (2nd pair for example). Though the pot is big enough to fire of 1 sb as a bluff manouver his handranges speak against the likelyhood of this.
      We do have a gutshot for the nut straight and a backdoorflush, so I'd say the call is warranted.

      On the turn he continues, we now have a full flushdraw for the river card, the pot is decent, and we are ahead in equity most of the time, still, I don't think it's likely he will fold to a raise, I'd say just calling here is justified since we might run up against a 3bet here.

      River, just left with tp/tk, according to pokerstove our equity is 35%. A calldown was justified from the flop, it's still justified on the river with tp/tk, I'd say a call is correct here.

      So I'd conclude the hand was played correctly, though I can't say I really like it.

      What do you guys think?


      EDIT: ARGH! Zaephyr beat me to it, and a lot shorter as well!
    • Blinzler
      Blinzler
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2005 Posts: 7,456
      never fold your top pair in that spot, you got outs + donk looks suspicious/often is a bluff!
      I like the hand as played. Basically i give him a decent hand range that is close to zaephyr's. Now, when we raise at any spot, a better hand is 3-betting, we can't fold => lose 1 bet more when behind
      When we are ahead (only vs AQ, QQ and 99) he will sometimes fold (99) and occasionally call down => we win 1 bet more against some hands, less vs others
      We are behind more often than ahead => calling > raising at any spot!
      this is dependent on the board solely, if we take player reads into account, the decision might change. If we know he wouldn't play a set/two pair that way, we should raise vs AQ/QQ/KK!
      If we know 100% sure that he will only bet his sets this way we could fold the river, but such a read is almost never existent and easily exploitable so i don't think i will ever fold it. :)
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Actually there is no more analyzing necessary.

      Of course this hand is no fold but it is also no raise. Also with our many outs if we make our flush draw in most cases we will still be ablte to raise the river.

      and the only thing that we don't want to happen is to get a 3bet on the turn. So call flop and raise turn in this situation is a no no.

      Excellent play here.

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      EDIT: FR Table (10max)

      pls don't edit after i made my statement *lol* it makes me look stuipid ^^