I need advices about my game

    • authman
      authman
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 811
      Hola everyone (like the claim for the Olympics Madrid 2016),

      I have been 6 months playing PLO, from PLO2, passing by PLO5, PLO10, an attempt over PLO25, and I am currently playing PLO10. In total I have played around 92.000 hands.

      Since I came back to PLO10, I have played in Stars and in Mansion.

      Until two weeks ago I used to play very aggresively, raising preflop from any position, and throwing contibets and second barrels in such a crazy way.

      These were my stats of Mansion:


      And here a sample of Stars (the previous hands were in another DB):



      I realised that (at least at these limits) I cannot play so aggr, and I decided to change my game style. I decided to raise almost only from BU and CO, and thinking twice to make bluff contibets and second barrels.

      My stats in Stars since this game change:


      And finally, my stats in Mansion since my change:





      Sorry for so many data, but I wanted to offer all the available information.

      What do you think about the two styles of play?
      What should I change in my current style?

      Will the aggresive one work in the future?


      Thank you and best regards
  • 9 replies
    • OrcaAoc
      OrcaAoc
      Gold
      Joined: 06.08.2006 Posts: 4,818
      Unlike in NLHE you have a lot more opportunities on how to play Preflop successfully. Both extrem LAG style and a rather normal or even nitty style can be very profitable as long as you play well postflop.
      The key to be a successfull Omaha player is postflop play. So Preflop you might want to stay with the style that suits you most. To improve your game you should focus much more on postflop play.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      you are not probably going to spot much improve only looking at preflop in a game where postflop is so important. postflop is where the most money is made/lost.

      oh , and I like being agressive , never be weak tight or loose passive :)
    • authman
      authman
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 811
      Orca, Alejandro, thank you very much for your comments.

      I know that the preflop play is just the starting point of the hand, and that Omaha is a postflop game, but I am trying to debug my game since the beginning.

      As you can see in my both styles, I changed not only the preflop game but also my aggresivity postflop. From your points of view, which ones should be the values of AF at each street?


      Thanks again and best regards.
    • Jim9137
      Jim9137
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      The only thing I can conclude from those stats that you should raise preflop more often. Less calling, more raising.

      But yeah, totally stop river bluffs (river agg 3 over stars?) and only contibet against 1-2 people on good boards, and otherwise only as a semibluff or value. In multiway pots, stick to good hits. You should be more aggressive on flop, and less so in the river where you should mainly value bet.

      You should also remember that at these stakes you frequently see people with 50/10 stats. You should be aware of these players, because when they raise, they have a good hand - and easily dominated hands like KT98 ds should go into the muck. Again, less calling, more raising.

      I don't know if you play deep stack, but that could also explain your negative results - getting it in as a marginal favorite with deep stacks leads to huge variance.
    • authman
      authman
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 811
      Originally posted by Jim9137
      The only thing I can conclude from those stats that you should raise preflop more often. Less calling, more raising.

      But yeah, totally stop river bluffs (river agg 3 over stars?) and only contibet against 1-2 people on good boards, and otherwise only as a semibluff or value. In multiway pots, stick to good hits. You should be more aggressive on flop, and less so in the river where you should mainly value bet.

      You should also remember that at these stakes you frequently see people with 50/10 stats. You should be aware of these players, because when they raise, they have a good hand - and easily dominated hands like KT98 ds should go into the muck. Again, less calling, more raising.

      I don't know if you play deep stack, but that could also explain your negative results - getting it in as a marginal favorite with deep stacks leads to huge variance.
      Thank you very much, Jim,

      In fact, I had already realised that my new style was not working, and I have changed it again.
      I have re-analyzed all the starting hands, and I have made a kind of Starting Hand Chart, but depending on the VPIP/PFR stats of the villains. Thanks to this I am avoiding lots of dangerous spots postflop, and it seems to be working, apart that I have begun playing PLO25.

      I want to clarify that I always play deep, with 100BB (but I am a kind of hit&runner, since when I get more than 160BB and other deep players are at the same table, I change)

      Just one doubt: Which PFR values would you recommend? Of course it would depend on the table, but I always look for the highest VPIP tables (and in Stars in PLO25 there are a lot of table > 60%)

      Since my new change of style I am having 27/11/2.8 VPIP/PFR/AF, which I think are values for taking advantage of those mega-loose tables.


      Thanks again and best regards.
    • Jim9137
      Jim9137
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      I read that PFR should be 2/3 of your VPIP, and generally the advice goes for shorthanded that you should be raising more than you are calling. If you don't, you generally find yourself folding to flop bets - or trying to do tricky bluffs against people who may not be able to fold.

      Playing PFR and with iniative goes a lot ways to simplify your play. You can even try to isolate most passive fish (AF 0.0-0.7) so that you can play heads up with them, or those who only continue after the flop with the nuts (Fold to contibet under 30).

      As they say, there are many ways you can play Omaha, and I can't guarantee that I'm any more right than you are - but if you keep it simple, you should definitely see more profit in the long run against those who don't know how to play. :f_cool:
    • DonerKebab
      DonerKebab
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 15
      Dont play PL10.
      Play sngHU until your roller for PL25. And play in a site with rakeback if you can. Rake is killing at those limits. It's not beatable at PL10, and very big at PL25 (something like 4PTBB/100)
    • Jim9137
      Jim9137
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      Yeah, I actually had a difficulty beating PL25 at FTP, where the rake is highest for the micros (PL10 is easy, since people are so loose and passive that not making profit is a crime against humanity). I don't know how much the rake affects, but I switched to CAP PL50 and I'm seeing far more profit than I ever would grinding the PL25.
    • authman
      authman
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 811
      Thanks for the comments,

      At the end I decided to play PLO25 despite being out of bankroll, and fortunatelly it went OK.
      I had an amazing starting rush, and now after 12k hands I am 560$ up. I can't complain.

      About the stats, since I made a whole review of the starting hands, I am having 33/12 VPIP/PFR and going down.
      (I anyone wants to see the detailed stats, in my spanish blog...)


      Regards.