Hand of the Day - Part V

    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Due to Christmas time and a bit more work here at our office i somehow missed to post new "Hands of the Day". We are working at an internal solution at the moment to create a database making such things a bit easier. At the moment i have to search for interesting hands manual so this always takes some time.

      Ill try to keep up the "hand of the day" stuff regular.

      But today i have 2 interesting hands for you.



      CO (40/11.1/0.94/47.4)

      Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (5 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q :heart: , Q :diamond: .
      1 folds, CO raises, 1 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls.

      Flop: (8.17 SB) 2 :diamond: , A :club: , T :spade: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls.

      Turn: (5.58 BB) 7 :heart: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds.

      River: (7.58 BB) 5 :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      Final Pot: 7.58 BB




      SB (28.4/15.6/2.79/39.5)

      Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (5 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with J :diamond: , J :spade: .
      2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 folds, Hero caps, SB calls.

      Flop: (9.17 SB) 7 :diamond: , 6 :heart: , A :diamond: (2 players)
      SB bets, Hero calls.

      Turn: (5.58 BB) 6 :club: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      River: (5.58 BB) 4 :diamond: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

      Final Pot: 6.58 BB
  • 10 replies
    • wilm
      wilm
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      At the first one i cant see really strange things. On the Flop u got middle pair and an inside straight draw so its ok to bet/raise here. If the CO raised u on the flop u would calldown to the showdown. One thing i dont get is that u checked the river?

      And the second one i dont really get. Is this some kind off semi-bluff on the river to make him think u have the straight or something? If not...why dont u bet the turn also?
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
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      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      I'm not really up with short handed play yet. But this is what I understand.

      1) In a 5 handed game, CO raising could mean a blind steal, but that usually won't work against players here. But it could also mean anything from 88 up to AA, A-K to A-J, suited or not, possibly any suited A, KQ, KJ, KT, especially if suited, likewise QJ, QT and JT. I'm thinking if he had a hand with an Ace, or even pocket Kings, you would have seen a lot more action here. We won't put him on QQ either, though that isn't impossible, I see that from time to time. TT would be out of the question as well.

      So lets see. Either JJ, xT, or a busted SD. The river check is good, having gotten rid of one opponent. A better hand won't fold, but a worse hand might bet, winning another bet. One thing I have worked out for myself, is that, a bet that the opponent won't call is no value, particularly since if the casino rakes it, you lose part of it for nothing.

      2) SB could be just defending his blind with an average hand, small pockets, or could have a genuine hand. Ace on the flop allows him to continue the initiative, but of course we can't fold our strong hand. Turn could be a check/raise, so we check behind. River check is fatal, we definitely have the best hand, he has missed everything. We bet on this river because if he has 88, 99 or TT he will most probably call.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      1)
      Can we bet the turn again here and why?

      Why do we check on the river and what will we do against a bet?

      Which hands will call a bet on the river and which hands will bet if we check?



      2)
      Interesting part here is also the river:

      Value bet yes or no?

      Which weaker hands will call here?
    • Anakha
      Anakha
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2006 Posts: 92
      Nice to see the "Hand of the Day" continues :) .

      I had a few thoughts on these hands yesterday but was too busy to post them, I'll do it now. Please note that my only shorthanded experience comes from no limit live games so my stat analysis might be a tad off.

      1)
      Taking a look at the villian, I'd say even for SH his went to showdown is a little too high and ofcourse his aggression factor is lower than my old housecat. I'd treat him like a callingstation, with a wtsd of 47% there are a lot of hands on the showdown he might call with, with such a low AF we don't have to fear a raise and have an easy fold if he does.
      My conclusion, we can also bet the river here.


      2)
      I'd say this hand is pretty much the other way around, the opponent's stats are a lot more decent and looking at the board there aren't many hands on the river he could call with that woudn't have us beat. Not only that but he is aggressive enough to check/raise us, on this board that would probably force us to fold, so my suggestion is to check behind on the river.


      EDIT: PS Are the post counts resetted? I've got a lot more posts than "1" :) and I'm sure Wilm and Aciddrop do too.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
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      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Yap unfortunatly they are and i was so close to the 1k mark ;(
    • Anakha
      Anakha
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2006 Posts: 92
      I guess we'll have to call this a bad beat and try not to let it influence our play? ;)

      (sorry for OT, couldn't resist ;) )
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Originally posted by Anakha
      I guess we'll have to call this a bad beat and try not to let it influence our play? ;)

      (sorry for OT, couldn't resist ;) )
      np :D :D :D

      ok by the way

      The interesting part in both hands is the river. So do we have a value bet on the river, yes or no?

      Hand Nr1:

      This is a clear value bet on the river? Why an Ace would bet anyway and we would have to call because the ten would bet here also. So we don't want to give our opponent the posibility to check behind with his smalle rpocket pairs and bet with his aces.

      Hand Nr2:

      This is a very thin value bet:

      Although our opponent showed a lot of weakness our opponent made a 3bet preflop. This indicates a big ace or a pocket pair. But villain would never check an ace on the turn AND river so a pocket pair is more likely and he is afraid of the ace. So we are ahead against 88,99,TT but we are behind against QQ and KK so its a real thin value bet.
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      Originally posted by aciddrop
      One thing I have worked out for myself, is that, a bet that the opponent won't call is no value, particularly since if the casino rakes it, you lose part of it for nothing.
      Actually uncalled bets are returned to you without any rake taken.

      But anyway i agree - a bet is useless if you will only get a call by someone who got you beaten.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      The question on the river is always to bet or not to bet.

      Rule1: Bet, when you think a weaker hand will call your bet. A lot of people think they have to bet when they think they have the best hand.

      Rule2: Or bet on the river when you think a better hand will fold

      Rule3: Never try to go for the check/raise with a strong hand. (there are only a few rare occasions where this makes sense.

      When you don't think that a weaker hand will call your bet - then check and hope to induce a bluff.
    • Kreatief
      Kreatief
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2006 Posts: 13,896
      That are both easy valuebets for me. Ok, hand two isnt that easy, more a thin valuebet, but hand 1 is definetly a valuebet!


      DKT