NL SSS: Ace-Queen hand

    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      I'm curious, Why do you say that AQ cannot be played from early position? I'm a begginer in poker but I think that if AK is a so good hand, why AQ isn't?
      With AK, you can go All-In after one single raise or after a reraise behind you, but with AQ, you tell that we must fold!

      I can remember, at the WSOP 2008 when Phil Hellmuth blowed up when Cristian Dragomir called his pre-flop raise with T4, Phil said "You know Mike, I think he called my reraise with Ace-Queen or something, he's a crazy guy... bla bla bla"

      Tell me, why AQ is not strong enough for a raise or something? And why AK does?
  • 13 replies
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      It's a bit hard to explain why this is so, since you are a beginner and probably are not yet familiar with odds and equity and hand domination.

      Basic reason why you should fold AQ from early position and to raises before you and raises behind you is because it's just not strong enough.

      You should fold from early position, because there are many players behind you to act in a full ring table, who might all have a strong hand. Another thing, when you play from early position, you will usually have to play out of position post flop, which is another reason why you should have as strong hand as possible.

      Why you have to fold when there are raises before you or behind you, is because AQ's equity is not good enough against regular raising ranges. I think you will get the best picture of equity if you play with free software "equilator" provided by pokerstrategy.com. Try to calculate AQ's and AK's equity against different handranges and you will see that there is big difference between AK and AQ.

      Equilator

      ...here's the link to equilator.

      Hope this helps.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Its a domination thing. AK dominates any ace and is badly behind only AA / KK.

      AQ is dominated by AK, loses an order of aces that bad players might call with (even horrible players rarely call lower than ATs), and is badly behind AA-QQ.

      As much worse as AQ is than AK, the same again goes for AJ to AQ.

      As you get more advanced in SSS and using player stats to adjust re-raise ranges, AQs, AJs and AQo will start creeping into your shove range at times against the right opponent.
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      Let me just tell you that, the hand of the Starting Hand Chart which has brought me more losses is precisely Ace-King! It's like, I go All-In has the chart says, and the opponnent has a middle pocket pair, I don't hit the Ace neither the King, and there goes my money.

      By the way, AK hand has the nickname "Anna Kournikova", because both of them are said to look better than they play :D
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      Let me just tell you that, the hand of the Starting Hand Chart which has brought me more losses is precisely Ace-King! It's like, I go All-In has the chart says, and the opponnent has a middle pocket pair, I don't hit the Ace neither the King, and there goes my money.

      By the way, AK hand has the nickname "Anna Kournikova", because both of them are said to look better than they play :D
      Must be just variance, be sure that AK plays as good as it looks and wins nice money when you give it a chance. ;)
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      and another one I don't really understand is Why must I fold pocket Queens if there is more than one raise in front of me! However, if I raise with QQ and there is a reraise behind, I can go All-In.

      In both situations, there is an opponent who makes a reraise. If it's before me, I must fold, if it is behind me, I go All-In

      ???
    • alland
      alland
      Global
      Joined: 24.11.2007 Posts: 174
      you need less equity because of the improved potodds
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      and another one I don't really understand is Why must I fold pocket Queens if there is more than one raise in front of me! However, if I raise with QQ and there is a reraise behind, I can go All-In.

      In both situations, there is an opponent who makes a reraise. If it's before me, I must fold, if it is behind me, I go All-In

      ???
      If you raised and someone raises behind you, you already invested money in that pot, on the other hand if there are 2 raises before you, you haven't invested any money yet and can fold without losing any money.
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      and another one I don't really understand is Why must I fold pocket Queens if there is more than one raise in front of me! However, if I raise with QQ and there is a reraise behind, I can go All-In.

      In both situations, there is an opponent who makes a reraise. If it's before me, I must fold, if it is behind me, I go All-In

      ???
      If you raised and someone raises behind you, you already invested money in that pot, on the other hand if there are 2 raises before you, you haven't invested any money yet and can fold without losing any money.
      yes, but two queens is a very good hand I think! two raises? So what? I have the ladies! the 3rd best hand!
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      well, QQ has 47% equity against a range of 3% (JJ+/AK) and most tight players will be using this range for 3-betting. Thus, you would be behind the range of the 3-better on average (assuming of course he only 3bets with JJ+/AK). As mentioned previously, you can shove if u have invested money in it already because u will always get sufficient odds with QQ with a short stack.

      if you do know that the 3better is capable of reraising TT and AQ as well, then by all means, shove your QQ
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      If two players raise in front of you than the reraiser often holds at least JJ or AK. Against AA and KK you'll lose most of the times. You're clearly the favourite against JJ and have a little edge over AK. A reraise with AQ, AJ, TT, 99, KQ, etc is not very likely. If you play against donks who are not afraid of shoving 99, you may of course push with QQ if you're sure about his range.
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      Originally posted by luitzen
      If two players raise in front of you than the reraiser often holds at least JJ or AK. Against AA and KK you'll lose most of the times. You're clearly the favourite against JJ and have a little edge over AK. A reraise with AQ, AJ, TT, 99, KQ, etc is not very likely. If you play against donks who are not afraid of shoving 99, you may of course push with QQ if you're sure about his range.
      If everyone play by the books, then yes you're right.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      Originally posted by luitzen
      If two players raise in front of you than the reraiser often holds at least JJ or AK. Against AA and KK you'll lose most of the times. You're clearly the favourite against JJ and have a little edge over AK. A reraise with AQ, AJ, TT, 99, KQ, etc is not very likely. If you play against donks who are not afraid of shoving 99, you may of course push with QQ if you're sure about his range.
      If everyone play by the books, then yes you're right.
      To keep it simple for beginners that's why the SSS guide for basic members tells you to fold AQ after a raise or reraise. I've heard that the bronze section tells more about pushing hand like AQ or QQ, but that's more advanced SSS. Definitely not suitable for bronze members.
    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      Anna Kournikova....

      Thanks for the laugh, very clever.

      But not quite true though.