Post flop with AK

    • Computerized
      Computerized
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2009 Posts: 43
      So going by SSS, you raise preflop with AK. Flop comes, and you miss completely. Opponent bets out - what do you do? Do you just shove all in, call, or fold it?

      The majority of the time, what is the best option to give the best results?
  • 7 replies
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Fold.

      AK is a strong hand pre-flop, but when you miss the flop you're virtually useless. You can call down and hope for an ace or a king on the turn/river, but that wont be too profitable in the long run.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      If you are donked into by OOP player, fold. OOP donk is sometimes a bluff but far more often is an "I have hit top pair with my stupid suited rags or hold a PP that missed, do you have overcards or an overpair?" info bet. Might as well answer honest since you cant bluff-raise enough with your baby stack to make anyone fold by then.

      If you are OOP, cbet. Cbet is normally a shove.

      If you are IP and action checks to you, cbet as per above.

      Occasionally there are flops that make poor cbet flops but as a beginner on low limits its probably simpler just to assume every flop is a good cbet flop for your small stack.
    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      It depends.

      1. If you are playing with a lot of tight players.

      If you have AK, flop comes something like 257, you can be reasonably confident that your opponents (up to 3 allowable I would say), don't have a pair at this point. So currently at this stage there a chance you hold high card ace. Reason is if your opponents are tight players, they won't call to see the flop unless they have a respectable hand.

      Also depending on your position, from a late position I would make a small sized bet and try to knock out some players, hopefully ones with a low pair.

      Early position check, then call a small sized bet only, fold to a large bet.

      2. If there are loose players on the table and one of them bet, definitely fold.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Originally posted by michaelqian
      It depends.

      1. If you are playing with a lot of tight players.

      If you have AK, flop comes something like 257, you can be reasonably confident that your opponents (up to 3 allowable I would say), don't have a pair at this point. So currently at this stage there a chance you hold high card ace. Reason is if your opponents are tight players, they won't call to see the flop unless they have a respectable hand.

      Also depending on your position, from a late position I would make a small sized bet and try to knock out some players, hopefully ones with a low pair.

      Early position check, then call a small sized bet only, fold to a large bet.

      2. If there are loose players on the table and one of them bet, definitely fold.
      So what if you have a tight player who cold called with pocket 8's hoping to get a set? He might debate calling your push as he has an over pair.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      257 would be an example of a bad flop to cbet on, but were I playing AK IP I would still shove at it. Our range as SSS is very narrow and only includes AK, sometimes AQ that 88 is still in front of, but includes many overpairs that have him smashed, so some villains are still capable of folding 88 here.

      Of course that assumes villain is smart, and I dont know why a smart villain is cold-calling a short stack player with 88. In fact I cant think of a situation where I would cold-call a short stack ever. I would raise or fold preflop as any hand good enough to call a short with has to be good enough to 3bet with anyway, else you should be folding as you are way behind shorty's range and have no implied odds.

      That is why SSS is pretty much raise-shove preflop, shove flop. Anyone who cold-calls you preflop is likely to be an idiot and most the time you are going to make money off them.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Originally posted by Jaissica
      257 would be an example of a bad flop to cbet on, but were I playing AK IP I would still shove at it. Our range as SSS is very narrow and only includes AK, sometimes AQ that 88 is still in front of, but includes many overpairs that have him smashed, so some villains are still capable of folding 88 here.

      Of course that assumes villain is smart, and I dont know why a smart villain is cold-calling a short stack player with 88. In fact I cant think of a situation where I would cold-call a short stack ever. I would raise or fold preflop as any hand good enough to call a short with has to be good enough to 3bet with anyway, else you should be folding as you are way behind shorty's range and have no implied odds.

      That is why SSS is pretty much raise-shove preflop, shove flop. Anyone who cold-calls you preflop is likely to be an idiot and most the time you are going to make money off them.
      I do actually do some cold calling with Medium to short stacks when in position with a small PP.
      If I knew that the player was playing by pokerstrategy's short stack strategy then I would fold, but most of the players are just people that want to play in the higher stakes and don't want to lose too much money.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by Computerized
      So going by SSS, you raise preflop with AK. Flop comes, and you miss completely. Opponent bets out - what do you do? Do you just shove all in, call, or fold it?

      The majority of the time, what is the best option to give the best results?
      Hey Computerized,

      If your opponent bets outs it really depends on the board, your remaining chips stack vs. the potsize, what kind of player he is and how many players he is donking into.

      On some boards you will have quite decent equity with your AK - especially if you have a combination of flushdraw / straightdraw / overcards - as such you need to take your equity against the opponent's raise into consideration.

      If it is however a tight opponent who is donking into you and you have next to no equity - you are better off simply folding - especially if you have a relatively large stack left. If a player is betting into multiple opponents - you should give him more credit for some kind of made hand (even though this move doesn't really make a lot of sense with a strong hand).

      Best regards
      SoyCD