Mistake?

    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
      Global
      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      Hi,

      I have just been eliminated from a online tournament when only 3 tables were left. I was dealt A4 suited (spades) and I only had 2 callers to a small raise I made (SB and BB). I was in the CO position and around 17,000 chips when the average amount was around 30,000 and the blinds were 800.

      The flop showed two diamonds, so there was a danger for a flush draw for any of my oponents, but it also showed another two fours, so I had a set with the highest kicker. I decided to go all-in. Only one called, of course, with more chips than me and 2 diamonds. The turn showed another diamond so he got the flush.

      Where was my mistake? Should I have just bet a portion of the pot, which would have left me with few chips behind, and see the reaction of the caller? And after the turn, with the other diamond, if I bet again I would have had to go all-in anyway or see if the other guy bet on that diamond, which I could have taken as a bluff?

      Really lost here...

      Thanks
  • 14 replies
    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
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      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      Yes, I made a mistake: post this in the wrong board... I hope someone replies anyway!

      Cheers,
    • MrPavlos
      MrPavlos
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      Joined: 12.02.2009 Posts: 553
      I think ur looking for the word variance which does exist.U put ur money while u have the best hand and let ur opponent draw against u.
      As we all now that's how we make profit long term.But it's quite usual such things to happen.Patience and keep up

      Peace
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      hello!

      1. you hit TRIPS, not a SET!

      2. you have 75% equity against a flush draw on the board so your push was alright

      3. the oponnent called against the odds

      4. variance, variance, variance!
    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
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      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      Thanks for your replies guys,

      A believe a set means the same as trips though! :D

      Well, this variance is killing me lately. I just play solid poker all the time but I keep losing tournaments for this same reason.

      Last example, when only 3 tables were left:

      I had 20k chips when the blinds where 600 and the average stack was around 25k so I was more or less ok but not brilliant.

      I was dealt AKo and made the usual raise from MP2 (3 blinds). I had been a bit poor in hands so I thought my AK was worth this bet. I then was raised by the BB, like 4k chips more. I decided to call that, believing I woul be OK if I hit an A or a K on the flop and thinking the other guy might be holding QQ or less due to the raise instead of an all-in.

      OK, flop was 8 K 3. Great! BB checks. Great! I bet half my remaining stack... And get re-raised. Shit. I then go all-in seeing his pocket AA.

      More variance or I played badly?

      Thanks,
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by CaveZone
      Thanks for your replies guys,

      A believe a set means the same as trips though! :D

      Well, this variance is killing me lately. I just play solid poker all the time but I keep losing tournaments for this same reason.

      Last example, when only 3 tables were left:

      I had 20k chips when the blinds where 600 and the average stack was around 25k so I was more or less ok but not brilliant.

      I was dealt AKo and made the usual raise from MP2 (3 blinds). I had been a bit poor in hands so I thought my AK was worth this bet. I then was raised by the BB, like 4k chips more. I decided to call that, believing I woul be OK if I hit an A or a K on the flop and thinking the other guy might be holding QQ or less due to the raise instead of an all-in.

      OK, flop was 8 K Q. Great! BB checks. Great! I bet half my remaining stack... And get re-raised. Shit. I then go all-in seeing his pocket AA.

      More variance or I played badly?

      Thanks,
      trips = 1 hole card and 2 on board, set = pocket pair + 1 card on board :) .

      your last hand: more variance ;) . he could have had AK or AQ, maybe even worse hands...
    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
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      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      Thanks! So what is the trick then? Having a positive thinking while playing poker seems to help. But after all these variances I am starting to create a very depressive look at the tables! A 6th sense? Err, having a friend at the poker sites servers? ?( ;(
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by CaveZone
      Thanks! So what is the trick then? Having a positive thinking while playing poker seems to help. But after all these variances I am starting to create a very depressive look at the tables! A 6th sense? Err, having a friend at the poker sites servers? ?( ;(
      patience, self-control, understanding of variance, reading self-management articles, listen to relaxing music... you get used to it :) .
    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
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      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      I do all that. I'll keep doing it then. Thanks, you're a crack!
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      this helps too :)

    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
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      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      Hmmmm. Not 100% sure about that...

      Another nice one in a freeroll tournament at PartyPoker:

      Blinds 200, my stack 5200, guy from MP1 with around 7k chips raises 600, I call from MP3 with Q 10 (not brilliant, I know, but hey, not horrible either), everyone else folds.

      Flop: 4 Q 10. MP1 bets 1600, I go all-in. He calls.

      Turn: 9

      River: J

      He shows A K. Straight. I love variance. It keeps helping donks :(
    • degre
      degre
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      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 413
      To be fair i dont see that much as a donk call... he probably thought you've hit just the queens, while he had AK in hand and a draw with the table, that's 12 good cards out at the flop, with the J giving him a pretty strong hand.
    • CaveZone
      CaveZone
      Global
      Joined: 15.04.2009 Posts: 12
      OK, so if he thought I had only made a pair of Q he then had three A, three K and four J as outs, making a total of 10 outs... ok, not too bad. Hopefully you won't think my all-in was a donk move either! :D
    • degre
      degre
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 413
      Ops... 10 outs, you're right, I'm posting a bit in a hurry as I'm at work and didnt thought that he actually had 2 cards in his hand...

      And no, i dont think you've made a donk move either, what I'm saying is what he thought was around, so with the perspective a pair of Q I personally think he's done ok.

      On the other what really was going on was that you had a double with top pair, you clearly had the advantage and would have won with every other card but a J, so chances were on your side, in the end Random decided he had to win, thats all.


      Just to close, this is the personal interpretation of a noob (me), I liked the hand and I've thought of saying something also an exercise for myself, if anyone with a bit more experience fancy saying something more I'll appreciate :)
    • TFMonty
      TFMonty
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      Joined: 17.04.2008 Posts: 126
      would need more info for an accurate answer how many ppl got paid?

      how many smaller stacks than you were there?

      makin money from tourneys is it always about following correct +EV decisions.

      u state 17000 chips and 800 blinds so you had at least 20+ BB then....whilst your decision was +EV correct as you bombed out of this tourney when you would have undoubtedly gone deeper it makes it a bad decision.

      by all means play the pot, but u do want to try and control the pot size whilst maximising your value if his flush doesnt hit.....I would certainly try and keep it down on the flop, if the turn is a blank a shove has a lot more fold equity with only 1 card to come.

      Deep in tourneys you are best not getting involved with bigger stacks, or stacks big enough to hurt your stack, unless you are very sure that you have the best hand and they have no chance of hitting. Your targets should be the smaller stacks who are pushing marginal hands.